Editing Talk:Wario's Warehouse

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== Delete page and anything related to it from the wiki ==
== Delete page and anything related to it from the wiki ==


{{Settled TPP}}
{{SettledTPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|blue|canceled by the administrators}}<small>Evidence that Wario's Warehouse was real has been found, see comments.</small>
{{ProposalOutcome|blue|canceled by the administrators}}<small>Evidence that Wario's Warehouse was real has been found, see comments.</small>


The article cites zero sources (word-of-mouth such as "actually, I saw this website before my own eyes!" is a worthless source, even if there's a consensus around it), and all Google knows on this subject is ultimately derived from this wiki. I realise that Wayback Machine's archiving system has always been finicky with Nintendo's European websites, but screen-capturing or downloading the web page wholesale have always served as alternatives to that, and nobody made an inkling of effort towards proving the material's authenticity. At this point I doubt even the site's URL was preserved.
The article cites zero sources (word-of-mouth such as "actually, I saw this website before my own eyes!" is a worthless source, even if there's a consensus around it), and all Google knows on this subject is ultimately derived from this wiki. I realise that Wayback Machine's archiving system has always been finicky with Nintendo's European websites, but screen-capturing or downloading the web page wholesale have always served as alternatives to that, and nobody made an inkling of effort towards proving the material's authenticity. At this point I doubt even the site's URL was preserved.
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::Well, from this, it looks like we can probably verify that the content existed at some point (though IMO we might have to verify these people too), and I don't think the article should be deleted, but be left with a improvement template that the article needs sourcing and new additions MUST be sourced. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:18, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
::Well, from this, it looks like we can probably verify that the content existed at some point (though IMO we might have to verify these people too), and I don't think the article should be deleted, but be left with a improvement template that the article needs sourcing and new additions MUST be sourced. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:18, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
: This is absolutely huge for proving its existance, great find! Mark Green was the European Editorial Coordinator at Nintendo, and states "The Super Mario Wiki has the complete collection of Wario’s Warehouse articles that Richard Moulton and I co-wrote at Nintendo. Several of our silly throwaway ideas are apparently now Nintendo canon. That’s awkward." --[[File:PM Tweester Sprite.png|30px]] It's [[User: Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]]! 16:32, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
: This is absolutely huge for proving its existance, great find! Mark Green was the European Editorial Coordinator at Nintendo, and states "The Super Mario Wiki has the complete collection of Wario’s Warehouse articles that Richard Moulton and I co-wrote at Nintendo. Several of our silly throwaway ideas are apparently now Nintendo canon. That’s awkward." --[[File:PM Tweester Sprite.png|30px]] It's [[User: Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]]! 16:32, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
: Mark's replies, shared with permission: https://imgur.com/gallery/NjUA4C3 Unfortunately he wasn't able to provide us with any "proof" as it were but seeing as he recognised at least some of the text on the talk page, its very likely (again, not proven admittedly) that it's all legit since it was all posted as one big text dump. Incidentally the most I could find on Richard Moulton is an article from 2010 with a Nintendo UK email address with his name, but it bounced back when I tried to email him. I'd guess he's left Nintendo and the address deactivated. [[User:Tmjjmt|Tmjjmt]] ([[User talk:Tmjjmt|talk]]) 19:35, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
::[[File:Club Nintendo Classic SMB2 01.png|70px]] Fantastic. Let's upload these in case imgur becomes useless in the future. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:09, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
:::So would it be OK to put the Wario's Warehouse articles atop this talk page on the article page as well, or do we need to hear Richard's word on it first (which I suppose may take a while finding an email address of his that is still in use)? {{User:Arend/sig}} 22:36, May 27, 2023 (EDT)


@Camwoodstock: The fansite you mentioned was archived on December 2007, many months after both the Wiki's page and talk page were made featuring the supposed articles from Wario's Warehouse. The information in it could've very well come from the Mario Wiki itself. While I am undecided on what to do, I find it noteworthy that nobody can find a single reference to Wario's Warehouse that for sure existed before the Mario Wiki's page. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 15:10, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
@Camwoodstock: The fansite you mentioned was archived on December 2007, many months after both the Wiki's page and talk page were made featuring the supposed articles from Wario's Warehouse. The information in it could've very well come from the Mario Wiki itself. While I am undecided on what to do, I find it noteworthy that nobody can find a single reference to Wario's Warehouse that for sure existed before the Mario Wiki's page. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 15:10, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
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BJAODN option is the worst one, even worse than deleting the page for lack of concrete proof. This is not a "bad joke". This is not a "deleted nonsense". This is an actual article. There is no mistake here, there is nothing that could be considered funny. It's just an article. [[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 16:16, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
BJAODN option is the worst one, even worse than deleting the page for lack of concrete proof. This is not a "bad joke". This is not a "deleted nonsense". This is an actual article. There is no mistake here, there is nothing that could be considered funny. It's just an article. [[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 16:16, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
:It seems like the only way to keep the content without having to delete it and risk losing it in the long term (hell not even Wayback is safe imo). Also, assuming the page is absolutely made-up in the worst-case scenario, I think it takes quite an imagination to make up this kind of elaborate nonsense (perhaps in the exceptional case where no one wants this in bjaodn, I COULD just store it as a user subpage or something), and I DO find the content itself quite funny. I believe the only real "reason" for content to qualify for bjaodn is "someone found it funny". {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:23, May 27, 2023 (EDT)


====Nintendo of Europe response====
====Nintendo of Europe response====
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[[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 07:23, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
[[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 07:23, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
==Post proposal comments==
[BJAODN option is the worst one, even worse than deleting the page for lack of concrete proof. This is not a "bad joke". This is not a "deleted nonsense". This is an actual article. There is no mistake here, there is nothing that could be considered funny. It's just an article. Spectrogram (talk) 16:16, May 27, 2023 (EDT)]
:It seems like the only way to keep the content without having to delete it and risk losing it in the long term (hell not even Wayback is safe imo). Also, assuming the page is absolutely made-up in the worst-case scenario, I think it takes quite an imagination to make up this kind of elaborate nonsense (perhaps in the exceptional case where no one wants this in bjaodn, I COULD just store it as a user subpage or something), and I DO find the content itself quite funny. I believe the only real "reason" for content to qualify for bjaodn is "someone found it funny". {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:23, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
Mark's replies, shared with permission: https://imgur.com/gallery/NjUA4C3 Unfortunately he wasn't able to provide us with any "proof" as it were but seeing as he recognised at least some of the text on the talk page, its very likely (again, not proven admittedly) that it's all legit since it was all posted as one big text dump. Incidentally the most I could find on Richard Moulton is an article from 2010 with a Nintendo UK email address with his name, but it bounced back when I tried to email him. I'd guess he's left Nintendo and the address deactivated. [[User:Tmjjmt|Tmjjmt]] ([[User talk:Tmjjmt|talk]]) 19:35, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
:[[File:Club Nintendo Classic SMB2 01.png|70px]] Fantastic. Let's upload these in case imgur becomes useless in the future. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:09, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
::So would it be OK to put the Wario's Warehouse articles atop this talk page on the article page as well, or do we need to hear Richard's word on it first (which I suppose may take a while finding an email address of his that is still in use)? {{User:Arend/sig}} 22:36, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
:::That's great news! Additionally, Mark Green can be vouched for, as he won [https://www.oneclub.org/awards/theoneshow/-award/2713/gameboy-advance-sp this award in 2004] for writing for Nintendo of Europe. --[[File:PM Tweester Sprite.png|30px]] It's [[User: Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]]! 23:31, May 27, 2023 (EDT)
:: [[File:RHMM Dr Crygor Perfect.png|40px]] Per Mario; I agree. If imgur becomes a paid service in future, then these proofs of Wario Warehouse's existence would be safe, free off charge. And, as for the Giulia's letter, I am waiting for further notice, they might restore it. {{User:PnnyCrygr/sig}} 06:05, May 28, 2023 (EDT)
::For what it's worth, we've taken the liberty to download the imgur files ourselves; if nobody else wants to upload them and potentially link to them in a citation or something, we could do that. It's not like we haven't cited emails before; see the Wario Land II enemies and the VB Wario Land bosses. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 11:07, May 28, 2023 (EDT)
== E-mail Transcripts & Images ==
For the sake of archival (imgur is a very volatile service, and [https://www.engadget.com/imgur-to-ban-explicit-images-and-delete-uploads-not-tied-to-an-account-122537118.html in the wake of recent announcements about their treatment of images not tied to accounts], we don't trust it very much for long-term archival prospects), accessibility (images are obviously unavailable to screenreaders), and simply for having something to properly cite, we have mirrored the imgur images as well as provided a text transcript of the emails sent by Mark Green. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:20, May 28, 2023 (EDT)
===1st Email Transcript===
[[File:WarioWarehouseMarkGreenCorrespondance1.jpg|thumb|right|150px]]
<blockquote>Hi James,
Wow this is a blast from the past! Thanks for reaching out.
Yes I can confirm the Wario's Warehouse series was very real! It was the article we wrote to introduce the weekly (or fortnightly?) tips and cheats published on the then-new Nintendo of Europe website. If my memory's right, I think Richard and I took turns writing it.
I think the dates might be slightly off on the wiki. I joined Nintendo in 2002 and that's the same year the website launched, so that means Wario's Warehouse can't have existed in 2001. I left Nintendo in 2004 and I'm pretty sure Richard kept writing it after I left.
Hope that helps! Strange to think all evidence of the series is lost except for the wiki! I love a lost media rabbithole, so it's very weird to be a part of one myself :)
Thanks,<br>
Mark</blockquote>
===2nd Email Transcript===
[[File:WarioWarehouseMarkGreenCorrespondance2.jpg|thumb|right|150px]]
<blockquote>Hi James,
Happy for you to share that email! Please don't share this email address though (the pixelatron email address is ok to share).
Really sorry but I don't have any of the material. I can reassure you the Talk page archive definitely isn't completely made up - I dimly recognise some stuff in there as my own, or at least very much my style. Lots of it doesn't ring a bell but that might be the ones Richard wrote, especially if he wrote them after I left Nintendo.
Sorry I can't be more help!
Thanks,<br>
Mark</blockquote>

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