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| ==Request== | | ==Request== |
| As my [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/54#Add when the Just released and New subject should be removed, while slightly rewording the former template|recent proposal]] just passed may you make the changes to the {{tem|Just released}} and {{tem|New subject}} templates as specified on my proposal, as the templates are protected? Thanks! {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 09:32, July 25, 2019 (EDT) | | As my [[Mariowiki:Proposals/Archive 54#Add when the Just released and New subject should be removed, while slightly rewording the former template|recent proposal]] just passed may you make the changes to the {{tem|Just released}} and {{tem|New subject}} templates as specified on my proposal, as the templates are protected? Thanks! {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 09:32, July 25, 2019 (EDT) |
| :I'm sorry, but I don't have enough administrative rights to modify the templates, either.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:41, July 25, 2019 (EDT) | | :I'm sorry, but I don't have enough administrative rights to modify the templates, either.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:41, July 25, 2019 (EDT) |
| ::I took care of it. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 10:00, July 25, 2019 (EDT) | | ::I took care of it. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 10:00, July 25, 2019 (EDT) |
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| Hey! Since the [[Scuttlebug]] does appear in Super Mario Picture Books, could you scan the pages where it appears it? I'd crop it. I am patient, but you can do it ASAP if you want. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:00, August 14, 2019 (EDT) | | Hey! Since the [[Scuttlebug]] does appear in Super Mario Picture Books, could you scan the pages where it appears it? I'd crop it. I am patient, but you can do it ASAP if you want. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:00, August 14, 2019 (EDT) |
| :{{file link|SMAGPB6 Cave SM64Enemies.png|Here is the scan}}. Since it was useful as a source to confirm the Japanese names, I kept the scan uncropped. In any case, you can find the cropped images of the Scuttlebug and of the Chuckya {{file link|SMAGPB6 Gasagoso.png|here}} and {{file link|SMAGPB6 Horuhei.png|here}}, respectively.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:39, August 15, 2019 (EDT) | | :{{media link|SMAGPB6 Cave SM64Enemies.png|Here is the scan}}. Since it was useful as a source to confirm the Japanese names, I kept the scan uncropped. In any case, you can find the cropped images of the Scuttlebug and of the Chuckya {{media link|SMAGPB6 Gasagoso.png|here}} and {{media link|SMAGPB6 Horuhei.png|here}}, respectively.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:39, August 15, 2019 (EDT) |
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| ==Fish in ''Yoshi's Island DS''== | | ==Fish in ''Yoshi's Island DS''== |
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| Since you also collect Japanese books, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on [[Special:Diff/2936036|this]]. Specifically, I wonder if you know anything about Japanese law and if unlicensed books are/were allowed to attribute copyright to the rights holder even if technically unauthorized, and if there are decent signifiers or other information in determining if a book has official approval. For [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|Naming]], is there a particular reason why Shogakukan always takes priority? Is it just as a general rule that their guides are official, or does Nintendo have some sort of exclusive licensee agreement with them? Thanks in advance. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:52, May 4, 2020 (EDT) | | Since you also collect Japanese books, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on [[Special:Diff/2936036|this]]. Specifically, I wonder if you know anything about Japanese law and if unlicensed books are/were allowed to attribute copyright to the rights holder even if technically unauthorized, and if there are decent signifiers or other information in determining if a book has official approval. For [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|Naming]], is there a particular reason why Shogakukan always takes priority? Is it just as a general rule that their guides are official, or does Nintendo have some sort of exclusive licensee agreement with them? Thanks in advance. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:52, May 4, 2020 (EDT) |
| :Since the Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook of ''Super Mario World'', I noticed a term used in the official books: 「協力/任天堂株式会社」. If I'm not mistaken, it means that the book was written in collaboration with Nintendo, and I found it in the following books: | | :Since the Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook of ''Super Mario World'', I noticed a term used in the official books: 「協力/任天堂株式会社」. If I'm not mistaken, it means that the book was written in collaboration with Nintendo, and I found it in the following books: |
| :* the ''{{file link|SMSQPB5 Back.png|Super Mario Ehon}}'' | | :* the ''{{media link|SMSQPB5 Back.png|Super Mario Ehon}}'' |
| :* the ''{{file link|SMCE page 256.png|Super Mario Zen Hyakka}}'' | | :* the ''{{media link|SMCE page 256.png|Super Mario Zen Hyakka}}'' |
| :* the ''{{file link|PEGMCE Last Page.png|Perfect Ban: Mario Character Daijiten}}'' | | :* the ''{{media link|PEGMCE Last Page.png|Perfect Ban: Mario Character Daijiten}}'' |
| :* the ''{{file link|SMP page 98 opt.png|Super Mario Pia}}'' | | :* the ''{{media link|SMP page 98 opt.png|Super Mario Pia}}'' |
| :* the ''{{file link|MCDSZ Back.png|Mario no Character Dai Shugo Zukan}}'' | | :* the ''{{media link|MCDSZ Back.png|Mario no Character Dai Shugo Zukan}}'' |
| :The latter two are relevant as they are recent and from different publishers (Pia and Kadokawa). For the sake of completeness, {{file link|SMBD Colophon.png|the ''Super Mario Bros. Daizukan'' uses a similar wording as well}}. | | :The latter two are relevant as they are recent and from different publishers (Pia and Kadokawa). For the sake of completeness, {{media link|SMBD Colophon.png|the ''Super Mario Bros. Daizukan'' uses a similar wording as well}}. |
| :If such a term is present, you can consider the book official, if no such indication is present, things start to get problematic. Either the book is older than the Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook of ''Super Mario World'' or the book might effectively not be written in collaboration with Nintendo. I still expect that the use of the Nintendo logo means some kind of approval from Nintendo, but conflicting information or information lacking in all the other sources should be handled with additional care. If there is no Nintendo logo, the book might indeed not be official at all. | | :If such a term is present, you can consider the book official, if no such indication is present, things start to get problematic. Either the book is older than the Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook of ''Super Mario World'' or the book might effectively not be written in collaboration with Nintendo. I still expect that the use of the Nintendo logo means some kind of approval from Nintendo, but conflicting information or information lacking in all the other sources should be handled with additional care. If there is no Nintendo logo, the book might indeed not be official at all. |
| :As far as Shogakukan having the priority, effectively its Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook usually have a few people from Nintendo involved in the publishing, meaning that they see a significant involvement from Nintendo. This has been true since the Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook of ''Super Mario World'', and Shogakukan basically published all the Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebooks until recent times, when Kadokawa started publishing some official guides as well, [https://www.kadokawa.co.jp/product/312307100000/ such as that of ''Yoshi's Woolly World''] that has not been published by Shogakukan (and also that picture book that I listed, and that has some interesting claims about {{file link|MCDSZ Toad.png|the ''Super Mario 3D World'' Toad being a Blue Toad}} and about {{file link|MCDSZ SMW Yoshi.png|Yoshi in ''Super Mario World'' being referred to explicitly as a Green Yoshi}}, this latter being technically correct but rather uncommon). I see this as the reason of that rule in this wiki.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:48, May 4, 2020 (EDT) | | :As far as Shogakukan having the priority, effectively its Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook usually have a few people from Nintendo involved in the publishing, meaning that they see a significant involvement from Nintendo. This has been true since the Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook of ''Super Mario World'', and Shogakukan basically published all the Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebooks until recent times, when Kadokawa started publishing some official guides as well, [https://www.kadokawa.co.jp/product/312307100000/ such as that of ''Yoshi's Woolly World''] that has not been published by Shogakukan (and also that picture book that I listed, and that has some interesting claims about {{media link|MCDSZ Toad.png|the ''Super Mario 3D World'' Toad being a Blue Toad}} and about {{media link|MCDSZ SMW Yoshi.png|Yoshi in ''Super Mario World'' being referred to explicitly as a Green Yoshi}}, this latter being technically correct but rather uncommon). I see this as the reason of that rule in this wiki.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:48, May 4, 2020 (EDT) |
| ::That's helpful. I notice Shogakukan's ''Super Mario Advance 3'', ''Super Princess Peach'', and ''Yoshi's New Island'' guides use the phrase 「監修」 instead of 「協力」, and both are used in the Shogakukan ''Yoshi's Story'' guide (with the former seemingly attributed to the company and the latter to individuals) and ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' My copies of Shueisha's V Jump guide of ''Super Mario RPG'' and Takarajimasha's TJ Mook guide of ''Yoshi's Story'' have no such disclaimer, which I expected. My confusion is because the latter credits a 1997 copyright to Nintendo, but since the Takarajimasha copyright and release date are listed as 1998, I assume it might be giving the Nintendo copyright to the game while the Takarajimasha copyright is given to the book, although it's not conveyed very well. My online searches haven't yielded any other explanations, so I'll presume copyright isn't enough and a statement of supervision or collaboration is reliable. I've another question, though: what was the status of guides older than ''Super Mario World''? It's probably moot if ''Super Mario Brothers Kanzen Koryakubon'' turns out to be unlicensed since its English translation, ''How to Win at Super Mario Bros.'', is, but many ''[[Gallery:Super Mario Bros. 2|Super Mario Bros. 2]]'' images are originally sourced from ''Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic'' / ''Super Mario USA'' ''Hisshō Kōryakuhō'', and then there's some Japanese names from ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' guides. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:05, May 9, 2020 (EDT) | | ::That's helpful. I notice Shogakukan's ''Super Mario Advance 3'', ''Super Princess Peach'', and ''Yoshi's New Island'' guides use the phrase 「監修」 instead of 「協力」, and both are used in the Shogakukan ''Yoshi's Story'' guide (with the former seemingly attributed to the company and the latter to individuals) and ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' My copies of Shueisha's V Jump guide of ''Super Mario RPG'' and Takarajimasha's TJ Mook guide of ''Yoshi's Story'' have no such disclaimer, which I expected. My confusion is because the latter credits a 1997 copyright to Nintendo, but since the Takarajimasha copyright and release date are listed as 1998, I assume it might be giving the Nintendo copyright to the game while the Takarajimasha copyright is given to the book, although it's not conveyed very well. My online searches haven't yielded any other explanations, so I'll presume copyright isn't enough and a statement of supervision or collaboration is reliable. I've another question, though: what was the status of guides older than ''Super Mario World''? It's probably moot if ''Super Mario Brothers Kanzen Koryakubon'' turns out to be unlicensed since its English translation, ''How to Win at Super Mario Bros.'', is, but many ''[[Gallery:Super Mario Bros. 2|Super Mario Bros. 2]]'' images are originally sourced from ''Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic'' / ''Super Mario USA'' ''Hisshō Kōryakuhō'', and then there's some Japanese names from ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' guides. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:05, May 9, 2020 (EDT) |
| :::Well, I found out that the ''Family Computer Hisshō Dōjō ⑦ Super Mario Bros. 2'' and ''Family Computer Hisshō Dōjō ⑪ Super Mario Bros. 1 & 2 Kami Waza Taizenshū'' from Kodansha, published in 1986 and 1987, do have the 「協力/任天堂(株)」 and 「協力/(株)任天堂」 terms respectively, so even though the proper official guides came later, major publishers were already collaborating with Nintendo. Still, it looks like that term is the one you should be looking for.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:17, May 9, 2020 (EDT) | | :::Well, I found out that the ''Family Computer Hisshō Dōjō ⑦ Super Mario Bros. 2'' and ''Family Computer Hisshō Dōjō ⑪ Super Mario Bros. 1 & 2 Kami Waza Taizenshū'' from Kodansha, published in 1986 and 1987, do have the 「協力/任天堂(株)」 and 「協力/(株)任天堂」 terms respectively, so even though the proper official guides came later, major publishers were already collaborating with Nintendo. Still, it looks like that term is the one you should be looking for.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:17, May 9, 2020 (EDT) |
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| ::Sorry, I do have one more thing (and this is whenever there's a chance if possible): if there's anything you can add regarding [[Talk:Lava Bubble#Super Mario Land 2?|Lava Bubble in ''Super Mario Land 2'']]. Also, I figured you'd be interested to know that [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P4.jpg|I've]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P5.jpg|uploaded]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P6.jpg|a]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P7.jpg|number]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P8.jpg|of]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P9.jpg|scans]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 10.jpg|from]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 11.jpg|the]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 58.jpg|''Yoshi's]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 59.jpg|Egg'']] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 60.jpg|Shogakukan]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 61.jpg|guide]], since it pads the book out with stuff related to ''Super Mario World''. I've added some of the obscure info like the Dinosaur Land origin and Rex and Yoshi having some sort of common ancestry, but there are also (gag-ish?) pages detailing things like Yoshi's daily routine and other Yoshi cultures. I thought I'd leave it to you on how best to present this info. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:38, February 25, 2022 (EST) | | ::Sorry, I do have one more thing (and this is whenever there's a chance if possible): if there's anything you can add regarding [[Talk:Lava Bubble#Super Mario Land 2?|Lava Bubble in ''Super Mario Land 2'']]. Also, I figured you'd be interested to know that [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P4.jpg|I've]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P5.jpg|uploaded]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P6.jpg|a]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P7.jpg|number]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P8.jpg|of]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan P9.jpg|scans]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 10.jpg|from]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 11.jpg|the]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 58.jpg|''Yoshi's]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 59.jpg|Egg'']] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 60.jpg|Shogakukan]] [[:File:Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 61.jpg|guide]], since it pads the book out with stuff related to ''Super Mario World''. I've added some of the obscure info like the Dinosaur Land origin and Rex and Yoshi having some sort of common ancestry, but there are also (gag-ish?) pages detailing things like Yoshi's daily routine and other Yoshi cultures. I thought I'd leave it to you on how best to present this info. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:38, February 25, 2022 (EST) |
| ::One last thing I forgot to mention earlier: if you know of any solid info regarding [[Talk:Spike Top#Consider this a Spiny derivative as well as a Buzzy Beetle derivative?|Spike Top's connection to Spiny]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:16, June 5, 2022 (EDT) | | ::One last thing I forgot to mention earlier: if you know of any solid info regarding [[Talk:Spike Top#Consider this a Spiny derivative as well as a Buzzy Beetle derivative?|Spike Top's connection to Spiny]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:16, June 5, 2022 (EDT) |
| :I can only reply to the first question, for now, but I have good news: both {{file link|SMCE page 51.png|Shogakukan's ''Super Mario Zen Hyakka''}} and {{file link|SMBD page 50.png|Kodansha's ''Super Mario bros. Daizukan''}} have material related to the matter: the similarity between Lava Lotus and Volcano Lotus is acknowledged (but they are considered different in both books), while the Daizukan, that also covers ''Super Mario USA'', states that Panser and Volcano Lotus are one and the same - but again, there is the issue of the shared name. ''Super Mario: Ysohi's Island'' was released later, so its enemies coudl not be covered by those books. | | :I can only reply to the first question, for now, but I have good news: both {{media link|SMCE page 51.png|Shogakukan's ''Super Mario Zen Hyakka''}} and {{media link|SMBD page 50.png|Kodansha's ''Super Mario bros. Daizukan''}} have material related to the matter: the similarity between Lava Lotus and Volcano Lotus is acknowledged (but they are considered different in both books), while the Daizukan, that also covers ''Super Mario USA'', states that Panser and Volcano Lotus are one and the same - but again, there is the issue of the shared name. ''Super Mario: Ysohi's Island'' was released later, so its enemies coudl not be covered by those books. |
| :When it comes to Yoshi, the early Nintendo official guidebooks from APE had plenty of oddities, the art style clearly indicated that the vast majority of the "information" was not to be taken seriosuly as an actual rendition of Yoshi in the games, books and related material to come (although the fact that {{file link|MKT_Artwork_YoshiKangaroo.png|we ''did'' end up with an Australian Yoshi wearing a Crocodile Dundee style cowboy hat}} is pretty amusing when looking at {{file link|Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 60.jpg|this page}}). At best we might put it into the trivia sections of the Yoshi or Yoshi's species page, if we can condense what is written there. The relationship with Rex instead might be more interesting, in that [[tcrf:Development:Super Mario World (SNES)/Sprites|during development Yoshi wasn't just a dragon because that is synonymous with ''dinosaur'' in Japan]]. In this sense, the closest to the ''dragon'' Yoshi could only be another dragon - Rex. As such, we might add that at the beginning he was seen as a relative of Rex in the nature (of the species) section of Yoshi's page, as an indication of how at the time Yoshi was definitely seen as a dragon-dinosaur.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:53, March 1, 2022 (EST) | | :When it comes to Yoshi, the early Nintendo official guidebooks from APE had plenty of oddities, the art style clearly indicated that the vast majority of the "information" was not to be taken seriosuly as an actual rendition of Yoshi in the games, books and related material to come (although the fact that {{media link|MKT_Artwork_YoshiKangaroo.png|we ''did'' end up with an Australian Yoshi wearing a Crocodile Dundee style cowboy hat}} is pretty amusing when looking at {{media link|Yoshi no Tamago Shogakukan 60.jpg|this page}}). At best we might put it into the trivia sections of the Yoshi or Yoshi's species page, if we can condense what is written there. The relationship with Rex instead might be more interesting, in that [[tcrf:Development:Super Mario World (SNES)/Sprites|during development Yoshi wasn't just a dragon because that is synonymous with ''dinosaur'' in Japan]]. In this sense, the closest to the ''dragon'' Yoshi could only be another dragon - Rex. As such, we might add that at the beginning he was seen as a relative of Rex in the nature (of the species) section of Yoshi's page, as an indication of how at the time Yoshi was definitely seen as a dragon-dinosaur.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:53, March 1, 2022 (EST) |
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| == Super Mario Pia == | | == Super Mario Pia == |
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| ==''Golf''== | | ==''Golf''== |
| Hey, I'm not sure if you have access to your guides yet, but I was wondering if you can look this up. According to the [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B4%E3%83%AB%E3%83%95_(%E4%BB%BB%E5%A4%A9%E5%A0%82) Japanese Wikipedia] article for ''Golf'', the player character is said to be Mario in something called Shogakukan's ''Super Mario Zen (All) Hyakka'', but doesn't include a page number. If this is the same thing as the ''Super Mario Zen Hyakka'', could you confirm if this is true? As far as I know, the only other outright confirmation has been in ''Mario Mania''; ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' noticeably does not mention the game, so I have wondered if the western Game Boy artwork was just an artist having fun. The article also vaguely claims that it was deconfirmed to be Mario at another point (besides Captain Rainbow) in a Family Computer Magazine / Famimaga feature, but that may be too broad. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:20, September 12, 2022 (EDT) | | Hey, I'm not sure if you have access to your guides yet, but I was wondering if you can look this up. According to the [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B4%E3%83%AB%E3%83%95_(%E4%BB%BB%E5%A4%A9%E5%A0%82) Japanese Wikipedia] article for ''Golf'', the player character is said to be Mario in something called Shogakukan's ''Super Mario Zen (All) Hyakka'', but doesn't include a page number. If this is the same thing as the ''Super Mario Zen Hyakka'', could you confirm if this is true? As far as I know, the only other outright confirmation has been in ''Mario Mania''; ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' noticeably does not mention the game, so I have wondered if the western Game Boy artwork was just an artist having fun. The article also vaguely claims that it was deconfirmed to be Mario at another point (besides Captain Rainbow) in a Family Computer Magazine / Famimaga feature, but that may be too broad. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:20, September 12, 2022 (EDT) |
| :I don't have immediate access to the scanner, but hopefully {{file link|SMCE page 85.jpg|this picture of page 85}} will be enough. Effectively, the ''Super Mario Bros. Daizukan'' only shows material from ''Mario Open Golf'', while the 25th anniversary ''Super Mario Pia'' mentions ''Family Computer Golf: Japan Course'', meaning that the Zen Hyakka is pretty alone, as far as I can tell.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 00:15, September 18, 2022 (EDT) | | :I don't have immediate access to the scanner, but hopefully {{media link|SMCE page 85.jpg|this picture of page 85}} will be enough. Effectively, the ''Super Mario Bros. Daizukan'' only shows material from ''Mario Open Golf'', while the 25th anniversary ''Super Mario Pia'' mentions ''Family Computer Golf: Japan Course'', meaning that the Zen Hyakka is pretty alone, as far as I can tell.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 00:15, September 18, 2022 (EDT) |
| ::My bad, {{file link|PEGMCE page 239.jpg|page 239 of the Daijiten}} mentions the Game Boy ''Golf'' as well, since the cover acknowledgement was in the Western release this should still be relevant.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 00:29, September 18, 2022 (EDT) | | ::My bad, {{media link|PEGMCE page 239.jpg|page 239 of the Daijiten}} mentions the Game Boy ''Golf'' as well, since the cover acknowledgement was in the Western release this should still be relevant.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 00:29, September 18, 2022 (EDT) |
| :::And, for the sake of completeness, {{file link|ZSMOH page 128.jpg|page 128 of Keibunsha's ''Zen Super Mario ŌHyakka''}} mentions ''Golf'' as well, the book seems to be licensed however, I couldn't find the supervised by/in collaboration with Nintendo notice in the colophon (though, much like the Daijiten, it's interesting how it's referring to the Game Boy version, that again explicitly showed Mario only in the Western cover).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 01:09, September 18, 2022 (EDT) | | :::And, for the sake of completeness, {{media link|ZSMOH page 128.jpg|page 128 of Keibunsha's ''Zen Super Mario ŌHyakka''}} mentions ''Golf'' as well, the book seems to be licensed however, I couldn't find the supervised by/in collaboration with Nintendo notice in the colophon (though, much like the Daijiten, it's interesting how it's referring to the Game Boy version, that again explicitly showed Mario only in the Western cover).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 01:09, September 18, 2022 (EDT) |
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| == Yoss == | | == Yoss == |
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| A short while back, around the time I added the Walu-Daisy bit to the wiki, I spotted something interesting when looking through the [https://web.archive.org/web/20001209080900/http://www.camelot.co.jp/gimon/gimon13.html ''Mario Tennis'' Camelot Q&A page] for more info:<blockquote>今までに発売されたマリオシリーズのソフトをひっくり返し、今回のラインナップに加われそうなキャラを探します。 | | A short while back, around the time I added the Walu-Daisy bit to the wiki, I spotted something interesting when looking through the [https://web.archive.org/web/20001209080900/http://www.camelot.co.jp/gimon/gimon13.html ''Mario Tennis'' Camelot Q&A page] for more info:<blockquote>今までに発売されたマリオシリーズのソフトをひっくり返し、今回のラインナップに加われそうなキャラを探します。 |
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| {{color|darkred|「'''<big>クリボー</big>'''どうですか?」<br>「'''<big><big>クリボン</big></big>'''じゃねえだろうな。」<br>「いや、'''<big>クリボー</big>'''です。」}} | | {{color|「'''<big>クリボー</big>'''どうですか?」<br>「'''<big><big>クリボン</big></big>'''じゃねえだろうな。」<br>「いや、'''<big>クリボー</big>'''です。」|darkred}} |
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| 何のことかさっぱりわからないと思いますが、以前'''クリボンとクリボーを勘違いする事件'''が起きた事があるからです。同様に、'''チョロプー、インディ事件'''というのもあります。それは、さておき、</blockquote>So, two takeaways here. One, the Kuribo/Kuribon (Goomba/Galoomba) confusion also existed to some extent in Japan. Two, there was ''also'' Choropoo/Indy (Monty/Mega Mole) confusion at some point. Now, it unfortunately doesn't elaborate there since it's only a quick sidenote, but reading that, a few things started clicking with the proverbial gears in my head. Was the confusion because they had totally different Japanese names? Is this why ''Super Mario-kun'' invented Super Choropoo one time, and later Mega Mole was phased out in favor of Morty Mole and then Mega Monty Mole? Is this why the ''Super Mario 64'' source assets used <tt>indy</tt> to refer to what in the final is supposed to be Choropoo? Is this why the Presenters in ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga'' went from looking like Mega Mole to Monty Mole in the remake? Or, potentially, this might even factor in to Rocky Wrench's redesign somehow? I've never heard of anything regarding a Choropoo/Indy mix-up, so I was wondering if you have further thoughts or details to shed light on this. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:24, January 6, 2023 (EST) | | 何のことかさっぱりわからないと思いますが、以前'''クリボンとクリボーを勘違いする事件'''が起きた事があるからです。同様に、'''チョロプー、インディ事件'''というのもあります。それは、さておき、</blockquote>So, two takeaways here. One, the Kuribo/Kuribon (Goomba/Galoomba) confusion also existed to some extent in Japan. Two, there was ''also'' Choropoo/Indy (Monty/Mega Mole) confusion at some point. Now, it unfortunately doesn't elaborate there since it's only a quick sidenote, but reading that, a few things started clicking with the proverbial gears in my head. Was the confusion because they had totally different Japanese names? Is this why ''Super Mario-kun'' invented Super Choropoo one time, and later Mega Mole was phased out in favor of Morty Mole and then Mega Monty Mole? Is this why the ''Super Mario 64'' source assets used <tt>indy</tt> to refer to what in the final is supposed to be Choropoo? Is this why the Presenters in ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga'' went from looking like Mega Mole to Monty Mole in the remake? Or, potentially, this might even factor in to Rocky Wrench's redesign somehow? I've never heard of anything regarding a Choropoo/Indy mix-up, so I was wondering if you have further thoughts or details to shed light on this. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:24, January 6, 2023 (EST) |
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| ::Sorry to be a bother, but I managed to trim that list dramatically since then. Everything currently there has talk page discussions, but I think the particular trouble spot is jellyfish/kurako (Tuki/Boddle's assistant might also use support). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:50, October 31, 2023 (EDT) | | ::Sorry to be a bother, but I managed to trim that list dramatically since then. Everything currently there has talk page discussions, but I think the particular trouble spot is jellyfish/kurako (Tuki/Boddle's assistant might also use support). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:50, October 31, 2023 (EDT) |
| :::Sorry, as of late I have troubles finding a moment to look into these, I’ll see if I can at least look at the two troublesome ones.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 13:10, October 31, 2023 (EDT) | | :::Sorry, as of late I have troubles finding a moment to look into these, I’ll see if I can at least look at the two troublesome ones.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 13:10, October 31, 2023 (EDT) |
| ::::Only now I realize I never answered. Sadly, the guide doesn’t mention the kurako nor Tuki, so it can’t help.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:09, September 29, 2024 (EDT)
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| ==Koopa Troop== | | ==Koopa Troop== |
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| Speaking of Sledge Bro, I also want to add if you know of any connection that Hammer Bro may have with Koopa Troopa or Bowser. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:50, January 25, 2024 (EST) | | Speaking of Sledge Bro, I also want to add if you know of any connection that Hammer Bro may have with Koopa Troopa or Bowser. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:50, January 25, 2024 (EST) |
| :I can confirm that no relationship is acknowledged in both the Daizukan and Daijiten, beside them belonging to the Kame-zoku. In particular, Sledge Bro is confirmed in both books to be an overweight Hammer Bro (Daijiten: ブロスー家1のおデブさん/知らず知らずのうちに食べ過ぎ て、こんなに太ってしまったヒマ ンプロス。しかし、動きがのろい のかと思ったら大間違い。空高く ジャンプをし、身動きがとれない ほどの地震を巻き起こすのだ。, Daizukan: ハンマーブロスが、ブクブクと太った 超重量級の戦士。ハンマーが武器だが、 ジャンプして着地したときにおこす地震 攻撃のほうがこわい! 地上にいるもの は、大地の振動で動けなくなってしまう),while all the others are kept distinct and unrelated to other members of the Turtle Tribe biology-wise. K.K. is specifically stated to be a sumo wrestler (Daijiten: 大物横綱の登場だ/ヒマンブロス (P171)に次ぐ超重量級キャラだ。相撲の基本とい われるスリ足で、ブロックのドを 左右に移動するカメ族の横綱だ。 マント以外での攻撃が効かないの で気をつけたい。, Daizukan: 動きはのんびりしているが、カメ相撲 の横綱。 「ドスコーイッ!」 としこをふ むと、かみなりがおちて地面がほのおの 海になる。すり足をしているときに、足 もとがすきだらけになるのが弱点だ。), Chargin’Chuck a football player with several attacks (Daijiten: 多彩な攻撃パターンのブル/アメフトスタイルのたくましいカメ。攻撃 パターンが豊富で、突進してきたり、ボール を投げてきたりとその数なんと8種類。3回 踏みつければ倒せるが、マントなら1発だ。, Daizukan: シリーズ中でもっとも多くの攻撃方法をもっている。ラグビーボールや野球のボール、岩などをぶつけてくるほか、 ダッシュやジャンプをしての体あたり、 分身の術をつかってマリオをくるしめる。)and Boom Boom a higher-up in its debut game (Daijiten: 長い腕をブンブン振り回す/軽快なリズムにのって登場する、 こうらにトゲのついた巨大カメ。 各ワールドの砦のボスで、手をブ ンブン振り回しながら体当たりしてくる。1回踏まれると一瞬丸まってトゲを出し、動きが早くなる。, Daizukan: 『マリオ3』のクッパ軍団の最高幹部。うでをブンブンふりまわして体あたり攻撃をしてくる。まるくなるとトゲゾー のような大きなとげがあり、とても危険。 なかまに、空をとぶブンブンもいる。). It’s worth noting how Takashi Tezuka was involved in the character design of ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and ''Super Mario World'', I wouldn’t be surprised if he was heavily involved in the design of these four enemies and the similarities between them were more due to his consistent art style.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 13:17, January 28, 2024 (EST)
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| == Bulbing of the Boo == | | == Bulbing of the Boo == |
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| Hello, I've already [[User talk: LinkTheLefty#Running of the Bulb Big Boo|approached LTL]] on the subject, but I was wondering if you had the Japanese guide for the original ''Mario Party'' available? I'm trying to figure out what the giant creepy Boo in [[Running of the Bulb]] is called to determine its relation to the N64/GCN-era "Boss Boo," and [https://youtu.be/9juh3ubHQPk the in-game instructions] don't mention it. I found ガスボステレサ ("Gas Boss Teresa") on [https://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E3%83%86%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B5%28%E3%83%9E%E3%83%AA%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%29 pixiv encyclopedia] and Mysterii tells me Wikipedia uses it as well, but of course neither is an official source. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:53, January 25, 2024 (EST) | | Hello, I've already [[User talk: LinkTheLefty#Running of the Bulb Big Boo|approached LTL]] on the subject, but I was wondering if you had the Japanese guide for the original ''Mario Party'' available? I'm trying to figure out what the giant creepy Boo in [[Running of the Bulb]] is called to determine its relation to the N64/GCN-era "Boss Boo," and [https://youtu.be/9juh3ubHQPk the in-game instructions] don't mention it. I found ガスボステレサ ("Gas Boss Teresa") on [https://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E3%83%86%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B5%28%E3%83%9E%E3%83%AA%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%29 pixiv encyclopedia] and Mysterii tells me Wikipedia uses it as well, but of course neither is an official source. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:53, January 25, 2024 (EST) |
| :Sorry, I don’t have that guide, I’ll try to have a look the next weekend on the Daizukan and the Daijiten about the Koopas, while you surely know by now how the 30th anniversary ''Super Mario Pia'' did put the two Boss Teresa together, although it was specifically the ''Super Mario 64'' and the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' ones. The 30th anniversary books only covered the “Super Mario Bros. series” in terms of characters (where that term at the time meant the “Super Mario series”, not the 2D platform series like it does now), while the two character books I mentioned were published before ''Mario Party'' and the new one just covers the recurring enemies. We’re a bit out of luck if you can’t find the ''Mario Party'' Shogakukan guide.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:55, January 25, 2024 (EST)
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| == Of punctuation, part 2 ==
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| Hi, Mister Wu. This question is related to the one I asked above regarding some punctuation quirks in Mario Kart Tour's script. I'd be thankful if you could uncover one more thing for me from the game's files.<br>So you've established before that the Chinese in-game scripts utilize the fullwidth forms of characters such as "!" and "?". Judging by their appearance in said scripts, I would assume that the characters <code>“</code> and <code>”</code> (the double quotation marks, hopefully I set them off acceptably) were also typed in this fullwidth format (see {{file link|MKT Tour114 Spotlight Shop Stealth Glider ZH-CN.jpg|this screencap}} as an example). These are specifically the ''curly'' quotation marks, distinct from the standard <code>"</code> character. My issue is that I could not find on the internet the (seemingly) fullwidth variants of the curly quotes that are used in-game; for instance, the Wikipedia page for {{wp|Halfwidth_and_Fullwidth_Forms_(Unicode_block)|fullwidth Unicode block}}, like other sites, only lists the fullwidth form of the standard quotation mark, not the curly ones.<br>My request is as such: could you please extract a piece of (simplified Chinese) flavor text that contains these curly quotes and paste it here to see these quotes in unicode? I'd go for a glider's or kart's profile since these seem to write their special skills within quotes, like in the screenshot I showed above. This would be helpful to decide how to style a bunch of [[Stealth Glider#Profiles and statistics|profiles]] on the wiki (scroll down to the simplified Chinese description).<br>Have a pleasant evening!{{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 19:02, February 4, 2024 (EST)
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| :I’m sorry thatI reply this late, but it doesn’t look like the dump I have included the Chinese text of the various “special offers” (like the packs). Is there a more generic text that includes said special quotation marks?—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:08, March 8, 2024 (EST)
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| ::Mate, I completely forgot I started this conversation. The onus was on me to respond more promptly. Sorry.<br>There's {{file link|MKT Standard Challenges 1-2 challenge 3 ZH-CN.jpg|this challenge description}} in the Standard Challenges 1-2 set that contains these curly quotes. That should've always been in the game. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 05:12, April 21, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::While for some reason I have yet to find that specific description, I did find a text that features the curly quotes:
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| ·关于支付、解除、继承,请查看“常见问题”的
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| “关于支付/解除/继承”。
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| The raw hex data used for the curly quotes is 1C20 and 1D20, since ARM is little endian, that means that they're using Unicode 201C (Left Double Quotation Mark) and 201D (Right Double Quotation Mark).
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| By the looks of it, as you can see from the first string, the fullwidth spacing - that is present in the final game - is added by the game itself, rather than being in the original text. That's likely because as far as I know the fullwidth curly quotes aren't part of Unicode yet.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:34, April 21, 2024 (EDT)
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| Thank you so much ^^ {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 04:48, April 22, 2024 (EDT)
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| == Luigi's Mansion 2 guide ==
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| Hello, I was wondering if you could help me know whether [https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%AB%E3%82%A4%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%9E%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B32-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%B3%E3%83%9A%E3%82%AD%E3%82%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%83%89%E3%83%96%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%9F%E9%80%9A%E3%81%AE%E6%94%BB%E7%95%A5%E6%9C%AC-%E9%80%B1%E5%88%8A%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%9F%E9%80%9A%E7%B7%A8%E9%9B%86%E9%83%A8/dp/4047289361 this guide] (and these preview scans thereof, I don't actually have the guide) is usable as a source for foreign names. I asked [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] earlier this year, who said you might know more about this. I found the guide mentioned [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/aggj/guidebook/index.html here], in case that helps. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 19:27, March 28, 2024 (EDT)
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| :It’s a tough call. Kadokawa now is the publisher of the official guides, but 11 years ago if I remember correctly the publisher of the Official Nintendo Guidebooks was Shogakukan. You should look for the 「協力/任天堂」 line in the colophon that states that a guide was written in collaboration with Nintendo, the recent character picture book by GzBrain and Kadokawa has that line, as an example.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:02, March 31, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::I see. Well, the few preview pages don't have that, so, to be on the safe side, I think I'll ignore this guide. Thanks for the help! [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 07:18, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
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| == MLSS Hammer Bro family ==
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| To your knowledge, were the [[Border Bro|Kokkyō Kyodai]] ever indicated in Japanese sources to be related to [[Sumo Bro|the other "K.K." brothers]]? I have that question asked [[Talk:Border Bro|here]] and a related one [[Talk:Limbo Bro|here]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:03, September 12, 2024 (EDT)
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| :Sorry that I reply only now. While the pun is pretty likely, the guide specifically referred to them as ハンマーブロス twice on page 24, so no official connection with the Sumo Bros. is acknowledged. I guess it’s just Alpha Dream that wanted a clever pun, but Nintendo already was pretty strict on making connections.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:20, September 29, 2024 (EDT)
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| == MK8DX stat tables discussion ==
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| Hi Mister Wu, I've seen the changes you did recently to the tables and the notes you left, so I wanted to discuss about some things.
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| First of all, I wanted to point out something regarding the previously unknown mini-turbo parameters. I used the name "Angle" because in that context it is synonymous with gradient/acceleration, and I preferred it to the other two words simply because it is shorter so it fits more naturally in the table. I didn't know that you were the first to coin the term because you thought it had to do with the charge angle, so it was pure coincidence that we used the same term for different reasons (meanings)! XD
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| By the way, I'm fine with simply using the word "Acceleration" instead of "Angle", since the latter, due to its multiple meanings, could also be confused with the charge angle.
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| Regarding the removal of the "Weight Class" column in the Characters Stats table, I wanted to let you know that I introduced those names to the table because I thought that would help players recognizing (and refer to) the characters with the same stats more easily, but I understand your point about the names not actually being canon. There are actually still the three generic names (Light, Medium, Heavy) that Nintendo uses even for this game, so they are canon. So for completeness I was thinking about reintroducing the "Weight Class" column, but using only those three "major class" names along with the already existing "Size Class" column. How does it sound to you? Anyway, I hope I didn't cause any problems with that previous idea. I thought it might just be a handy nomenclature for new players.
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| Lastly, I wanted to update you on one of my recent changes on the Tires Stats table. Since you said that the "Stability" column could be confused for a statistic (like it actually was in Mario Kart 7), I opted for a different solution to mark the three "bouncy tires": I added a footnote saying that those tires are programmed to stick less to the ground, unlike the others.
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| Thanks for your time and Merry Christmas! [[User:ItzManu001|ItzManu001]] ([[User talk:ItzManu001|talk]]) 17:50, December 25, 2024 (EST)
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| :Sorry for the misunderstanding, but yeah, in the modding community the “Angle” term was in use due to a fault of mine - back when we datamined the internal stats we discovered this additional stat, and sadly we weren’t yet able to directly test its effects as modding was just at the beginning - even data mining was difficult. Since there were wrong reports that softdrifting angle wasn’t a fixed value, the first thing that came to our mind was that said stat controlled the angle, so when a tool to read and possibly modify the value was being developed the main developer, who is also a friend of mine, asked me what term to use and “Angle” ended up being the term used. While acceleration is indeed the angle of the curve in the speed vs. time graph I can’t ask the poor readers to make such a reasoning, I’d just use the more direct term at this point, it also helps us steer away from that mistake I made back then - and that you helped clarify.
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| :Apart from this, though, while I definitely appreciate the work on the layout, I wanted to point out a few things about the edits:
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| :1) we need to be very cautious when inserting made up terms in the tables along with statistics, in particular because while it’s indeed Mario Kart Tour the first game that explicitly applied stats uniquely based on driver size, this didn’t come out of nowhere, but was more a more explicit acknowledgement of an ongoing approach that is more and more decoupling weight from the stats. It started with Metal Mario in Mario Kart 7 and it became very apparent in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. At the end of the day, less created-by-us terms can be more, as it means less horizontal scrolling for mobile screens or the old 1366 X 768 screens. Plus, it’s important to start acknowledging how weight classes, despite being still official, started to become less and less relevant. In theory, we could still use the Prima guide weight classes that are considered official by the writing guidelines, but considering how many groups stay in one of these classes it would show even better why we can happily get rid of weight classes altogether. We just need to report the ones of the site in the main page, but in the statistics we don’t need to stick to those, since at this point the stats are only loosely dependent on weight, and we can have different statistics at the same weight.
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| :2) when it comes to the tires’ stability, the long term goal is extracting the statistics from the Parts file, I’ve noticed many integers in the tires’ statistics so with a bit of luck you can pretty quickly find the ones that are relevant for the behavior you’re trying to report and you can directly report those rather than relying on an empirical value. Consider that an homework if you want, but I think it’s better for us to report the actual statistics used by the game that cause that specific behavior, especially since we do that for the vast majority of the other values. Worst case, we get a deeper knowledge of the internals of the game, that is always a plus in my book ;-)
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| :3) now that we are at it, could you please have a look at how many new same-stats groups are created by taking into account the Invincibility stat? I’d be happier if we didn’t treat it as a second citizen and created new drivers’ or parts’ groups that also share the same Invincibility stat, so that the Invincibility can be given the same space as the other stats and there’s no need to go back and forth to see which is the driver or part with that specific Invincibility stat.
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| :Finally, one last thing I want to restate: I actually appreciate the work you’re doing to present the stats in a more concise format, while I might not agree with a few details the overall idea is sound to me. Oh, and a merry Christmas to you too!—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:01, December 25, 2024 (EST)
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| ::I totally get the logic behind using directly the term "Acceleration" to avoid confusion (also considering that some non-native english speakers may not be very familiar with all the meaninings of the term "Angle"). Regarding the other points:
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| ::1) Yes, I completely understand that. Using the "Size classes" seems enough.
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| ::2) It would be cool to discover where the parameters that define the "stability" of the tires actually are and what the effects are when they are changed. I use an emulator to mod the game, so doing tests with different self-made mods is relatively easy, surely more comfortable than real hardware. That's how I was able to do tests about the Weight stat, the Blooper, the Slippery Terrains and the "Mini-Turbo Acceleration" parameters after all. I can try to investigate a bit on the ''Parts.bin'' file and see if I can cook something.
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| ::3) So you'd like all vehicle parts to be in different rows even if they differ only on the Invincibility stat, is that right? I understand where you're coming from; I personally grouped them together because the differentiation in Invincibility was a decision by Nintendo to try to balance the difference in hit-box size/shape and drift type. So you would like to see something like this, isn't it? ''(Here is an example with the first vehicles)''
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| ::{|border="1"cellpadding="3"style="background:#f8f9fa;border-color:black;text-align:center;width:100%;border-collapse:collapse;margin-bottom:5px;text-align:center;"
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| !colspan="19"style="background-color:#eaecf0;"|<big><big>Bodies (BD)</big></big>
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| !style="width:15%;"rowspan="2"|<big>Body</big>
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| !style="width:15%;"rowspan="2"colspan="4"|<big>Vehicle Type</big>
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| !style="width:20%;"colspan="4"|<big>Speed</big>
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| !style="width:5%;"rowspan="2"|Acceleration<br><small>(AC)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"rowspan="2"|Weight<br><small>(WG)</small>
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| !style="width:20%;"colspan="4"|<big>Handling</big>
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| !style="width:5%;"rowspan="2"|(Off-Road) Traction<br><small>(OF)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"rowspan="2"|Mini-Turbo<br><small>(MT)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"rowspan="2"|Invincibility<br><small>(IV)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;color:#333333;"rowspan="2"|On-Road Traction<br><small>(ON)</small>{{footnote|main|1}}
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| |-
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| !style="width:5%;"|Ground<br><small>(SL)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"|Water<br><small>(SW)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"|Air<br><small>(SA)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"|Anti-Gravity<br><small>(SG)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"|Ground<br><small>(TL)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"|Water<br><small>(TW)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"|Air<br><small>(TA)</small>
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| !style="width:5%;"|Anti-Gravity<br><small>(TG)</small>
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| |-style="font-weight:bold"
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| |width="1%"|[[File:BiddybuggyBodyMK8.png|x32px|link=Biddybuggy|Biddybuggy (Buggybud)]][[File:MrScootyBodyMK8.png|x32px|link=Mr. Scooty|Mr. Scooty (Mr Scooty)]]
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| |[[File:MK8_Kart_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Kart|Kart]]||[[File:MK8_Standard_Bike_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Standard bike (vehicle class)|Standard Bike]]||colspan="2"|
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| |style="background-color:#ffff80;"|0
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| |style="background-color:#ffff80;"|1
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| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|1
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| |style="background-color:#99ffe5;"|2
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| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|7
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| |style="background-color:#ffff80;"|0
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80bfff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ecff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|7
| |
| |style="background-color:#ffff80;"|0
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;color:#333333;"|1
| |
| |-style="font-weight:bold"
| |
| |width="1%"|[[File:MK8Streetle.png|x32px|link=Streetle|Streetle]]
| |
| |[[File:MK8_Kart_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Kart|Kart]]||colspan="3"|
| |
| |style="background-color:#99ffe5;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#ffff80;"|0
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#ffff80;"|0
| |
| |style="background-color:#80b2ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80bfff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#92ffec;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#ffff80;color:#333333;"|0
| |
| |-style="font-weight:bold"
| |
| |width="1%"|[[File:LandshipBodyMK8.png|x32px|link=Landship|Landship]]
| |
| |[[File:MK8_Kart_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Kart|Kart]]||colspan="3"|
| |
| |style="background-color:#99ffe5;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#ffff80;"|0
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#ffff80;"|0
| |
| |style="background-color:#80b2ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80bfff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#b6ffc8;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#ffff80;color:#333333;"|0
| |
| |-style="font-weight:bold"
| |
| |width="1%"|[[File:PipeFrameBodyMK8.png|x32px|link=Pipe Frame|Pipe Frame]]
| |
| |width="3.75%"|[[File:MK8_Kart_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Kart|Kart]]||colspan="3"|
| |
| |style="background-color:#99ffe5;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|1
| |
| |style="background-color:#ccffb2;"|1
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|1
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80bfff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80bfff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ecff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#92ffec;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#80bfff;color:#333333;"|3
| |
| |-style="font-weight:bold"
| |
| |width="1%"|[[File:VarmintBodyMK8.png|x32px|link=Varmint|Varmint]][[File:MK8 Light-Green City Tripper.png|x32px|link=City Tripper|City Tripper]]
| |
| |width="3.75%"|[[File:MK8_Standard_Bike_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Standard bike (vehicle class)|Standard Bike]]||width="3.75%"|[[File:MK8_Standard_Bike_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Standard bike (vehicle class)|Standard Bike]]||width="7.5%"colspan="2"|
| |
| |style="background-color:#99ffe5;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|1
| |
| |style="background-color:#ccffb2;"|1
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|1
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80bfff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80bfff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ecff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#b6ffc8;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80bfff;color:#333333;"|3
| |
| |-style="font-weight:bold"
| |
| |width="1%"|[[File:CatCruiserBodyMK8.png|x32px|link=Cat Cruiser|Cat Cruiser]][[File:CometBodyMK8.png|x32px|link=Comet|Comet]]
| |
| |[[File:MK8_Kart_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Kart|Kart]]||[[File:MK8_Sport_Bike_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Sport bike (vehicle class)|Sport Bike (Inward Drift Bike)]]||colspan="2"|
| |
| |style="background-color:#99ffe5;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80e5ff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#80c8ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80b2ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#92ffec;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#92ffec;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;color:#333333;"|4
| |
| |-style="font-weight:bold"
| |
| |width="1%"|[[File:YoshiBikeBodyMK8.png|x32px|link=Yoshi Bike|Yoshi Bike]]
| |
| |[[File:MK8_Sport_Bike_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=Sport bike (vehicle class)|Sport Bike (Inward Drift Bike)]]||colspan="3"|
| |
| |style="background-color:#99ffe5;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80e5ff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#80c8ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80b2ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#92ffec;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#b6ffc8;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;color:#333333;"|4
| |
| |-style="font-weight:bold"
| |
| |width="1%"|[[File:TeddyBuggyBodyMK8.png|x32px|link=Teddy Buggy|Teddy Buggy]]
| |
| |[[File:MK8_ATV_Body_Icon_Inverted.png|x32px|link=All-Terrain Vehicle|All-Terrain Vehicle (ATV)]]||colspan="3"|
| |
| |style="background-color:#99ffe5;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80e5ff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#80c8ff;"|5
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#80b2ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#bfffbf;"|2
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;"|4
| |
| |style="background-color:#80ffff;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#92ffec;"|3
| |
| |style="background-color:#80a4ff;"|6
| |
| |style="background-color:#daffa4;"|1
| |
| |style="background-color:#8080ff;color:#333333;"|4
| |
| |}
| |
| ::[[User:ItzManu001|ItzManu001]] ([[User talk:ItzManu001|talk]]) 12:15, December 26, 2024 (EST)
| |
| :::2) thanks, that’s exactly where the physical parameters that indirectly affect gameplay are so you should find there what you’re looking for. Good luck!
| |
| :::3) yes, that’s what I was looking for. While Invincibility indeed came later as some balancing fix, it’s still a relevant stat that we want to be given the importance that it has gameplay-wise and that we want to be easily readable, so I’d go for this last table if you don’t mind.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 04:10, December 27, 2024 (EST)
| |
| ::::A little update regarding trying to find what causes tires to bounce in the ''Part.bin'' file. This file is pretty complex with lot of parameters, most of them being either unknown or unused (well done Nintendo for making such a messy code), so trying to find the right parameters and testing properly will be quite of a time-consuming task. Meanwhile seems I have found a parameter that "flags" tire types. "0" is given to Rollers, Azure Rollers and Button Tires, "514" to Monster Tires, Hot Monster Tires and Cushion Tires, while "257" is given to all the other tires. I did some testing and it doesn't seem to affect bouncing... actually I still don't know what it does exactly because I didn't notice differences by changing this flag for some tires. It's still interesting discovering that the tires are categorized in "types" in the code ("0" for "small tire", "257" for "medium tire", "514" for "big tires"). Another discovery worth mentioning is that seems like I've finally found a "canonical way" to determine the impact that tires have on the hit-box of the vehicle. I noticed two parameters that seem to change the height (Y) and horizontal extension (XZ) of the tire hit-box. Also each vehicle has other parameters that are used as size multipliers (this is related to the fact that tires change size based on the vehicle). I will continue to mess around with the file to hopefully trying what causes the big tires to bounce.
| |
| ::::{| class="wikitable sortable"
| |
| |+ Base Tire Hit-Boxes
| |
| |-
| |
| ! Tire !! Width (XZ) !! Height (Y)
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:SlimTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Slim (tire)|Slim]][[File:CrimsonSlimTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Crimson Slim|Crimson Slim]][[File:MK8-TriforceTires.png|x32px|link=Triforce Tires|Triforce Tires (Triforce Tyres)]] || 0.4 || 2.65
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:ButtonTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Button (tire)|Button]] || 0.45 || 2.05
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:RollerTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Roller|Roller]][[File:AzureRollerTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Azure Roller|Azure Roller]] || 0.5 || 1.25
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:Off-Road.png|x32px|link=Off-Road|Off-Road]][[File:Retro_Off-Road.png|x32px|link=Retro Off-Road|Retro Off-Road]] || 0.5 || 2.63
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:WoodTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Wood|Wood (Wooden)]] || 0.53 || 2.65
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:MetalTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Metal|Metal]] || 0.55 || 3.0
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:MK8D Ancient Tires.png|x32px|link=Ancient Tires|Ancient Tires]] || 0.6 || 2.65
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:SpongeTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Sponge|Sponge]] || 0.7 || 1.7
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:StandardTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Standard (tire)|Standard (Normal)]][[File:Blue_Standard.png|x32px|link=Blue Standard|Blue Standard (Normal Blue)]][[File:Gold_Tires_MK8.png|x32px|link=Gold Tires|Gold Tires (Gold Wheels)]][[File:Leaf Tires MK8.png|x32px|link=Leaf Tires|Leaf Tires (Leaf Tyres)]] || 0.9 || 1.6875
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:GLATires-MK8.png|x32px|link=GLA Tires|GLA Tires (GLA Wheels)]] || 0.95 || 2.1
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:CushionTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Cushion|Cushion]] || 1.0 || 3.2
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:SlickTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Slick|Slick]][[File:CyberSlickTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Cyber Slick|Cyber Slick]] || 1.2 || 1.75
| |
| |-
| |
| | [[File:MonsterTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Monster (tire)|Monster]][[File:HotMonsterTiresMK8.png|x32px|link=Hot Monster|Hot Monster (Funky Monster)]] || 1.5 || 3.6
| |
| |}
| |
| ::::[[User:ItzManu001|ItzManu001]] ([[User talk:ItzManu001|talk]]) 16:34, December 29, 2024 (EST)
| |
| :::::Sorry that I reply only now. First of all, thanks for sharing your discoveries! Now, 257 and 514 are respectively 0100000001 and 1000000010 in bit coding, so you’re likely looking at bit flags, it would be intriguing to know what the various flags do. The hitbox information is really nice, it’s especially useful for Time Trials so it could be something to create a separate table for, especially if we find other interesting stats. Keep up the good work, and have a nice new year!—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:28, January 2, 2025 (EST)
| |