User talk:Nintendo101

Regarding to your recent Character Artworks uploads

I notice the artworks you have recently uploaded, but what you need to know is to not cut off part of a character artwork for the character's pages. Unless one existed single high resolution art file from a reliable source such as Nintendo, or video game source site (as such IGN or GameStop).

L151

Thank you. As I am new to the wiki I was unaware of this. I will no longer make this mistake.

Forum account? (Regarding your recent uploads rel. to M&S Rio 2016)

Hey, just wondering, do you have a forum account by any chance? Because there is something that I wish to ask you about those M&S Rio 2016 arts in question that I can't post here on your talkpage. Let me know soon; thanks so much in advance for your time. --M. C. - Profile | Talk Page 10:27, 14 December 2017 (EST)

Hi, M.C. I unfortunately do not have a forum account, but I do have an email account. Is there a problem, or just an inquiry? Could you at least explain or hint at why you cannot ask me here on my talkpage? Nintendo101 (talk) 18:32, 19 December 2017 (EST)

Koopa Troopa

Sorry, I didn't see the direct, but how are you sure Koopa Troopa would be "unlockable" and not default or an NPC player? Koopa Troopa isn't a series regular, like Mario and Link are in Smash... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:38, 8 March 2018 (EST)

Hi, Doc. The citation I attributed displays what I'm talking about. During the Direct, they announced an online tournament mode for Aces. The reward for participating in these tournaments are "t-shirts" and "additional characters", and they showed silhouettes for each on screen. The character silhouette was very clearly Koopa Troopa - holding a tennis racket. You can see it at the 4:23 mark here. Let me know when you have seen this. Nintendo101 (talk) 23:52, 9 March 2018 (EST)

Hm, not sure if that's "unlockable" in the traditional sense, seems to be a combination of that and DLC due to necessitating online interaction (a crummy way to have unlocking criteria, if you ask me...) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:56, 9 March 2018 (EST)

Huh, you have a point. I never thought of it that way! I recall some people thinking/assuming/hoping they'll be means to unlock characters off-line, such as through the story mode. But in any case, would it be more appropriate to present the info as "Koopa Troopa ("additional" character)"? Nintendo101 (talk) 00:00, 10 March 2018 (EST)

Coelacanth

No one called you pedantic. The user simply updated the table from an older version, unawares overwriting the change you made. -- -- KOOPA CON CARNE 18:52, 11 February 2019 (EST)

Thank you for the clarification, and I apologize if I seemed accusative. I have had unfortunate experiences recently with users on a few other wikis. I guess it made me a little defensive. Nintendo101 (talk) 23:16, 11 February 2019 (EST)

No worries. -- -- KOOPA CON CARNE 22:05, 12 February 2019 (EST)

Sources for images

Make sure you check the sources for the images when you upload artwork, don't just randomly use google images and post whatever you see there. Images must be official not fanarts even if they're replicas of official artwork CastleResearch (talk) 11:28, October 4, 2020 (EDT)

Hi. I appreciate that you contacted me and I will be more careful identifying sources in the future, but I do not appreciate the implication that I locate images uncritically. I have never knowingly uploaded an image that was fanart, nor have I every casually pulled images from Google. Cheers.Nintendo101 (talk) 20:53, October 4, 2020 (EDT)

If you didn't use google images, then you would have known that it's fanart since it can be easily found here: https://www.deviantart.com/vinfreild/art/522059687 CastleResearch (talk) 21:58, October 4, 2020 (EDT)

I located the image on a png depository site called FavPNG by chance in my attempt to locate lost official artwork from the Metroid and Star Fox series. Anyone can upload images to such a site and while some are fan creations quite a few are official images. It was seen there without any context and presumed official. This was in error. Nintendo101 (talk) 12:05, October 6, 2020 (EDT)

Images

Hello, please don't upload models over game screenshots. Both have a place on this wiki, so they should be uploaded separately, not one over another. Scrooge200 (talk) 17:39, January 13, 2021 (EST)

Sure thing. Sorry! I'll reverse my revisions. - Nintendo101 (talk) 17:43, January 13, 2021 (EST)

Remember that when you upload an image, you need to place them somewhere. Otherwise they'll float around unused. 21:19, March 30, 2021 (EDT)

Mister I

Is that an actual render or just the textures artificially laid over each other? Because the latter's been deleted repeatedly for being inaccurate to their actual relative size. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:44, January 14, 2021 (EST)

Hello! I am not sure, but I tentatively assume "no". I did not procure the image myself. It was uploaded here on Mario's Castle by Duraner Hawkeye (which I should have specified in the image summary and will fix after this post) and I assume good faith. There was no warning about this specific image file or any similar one having previously been uploaded to Mario Wiki, so I assumed it was fine. If this is a problem, I can remove it. - Nintendo101 (talk)

SMS

Hey, I like what you've done with the character section on the Super Mario Sunshine page. Keep up the good work. --Glowsquid (talk) 13:09, January 25, 2021 (EST)

Well that's kind of you. Thank you! I will keep trying to do my best. - Nintendo101 (talk) 15:04, January 25, 2021 (EST)

re:

• The formatting is all nice and good. I like it.
• Having an introductory paragraph in the enemies section describing the game,s stylistic choice and departures from the series convention is a very niche touch, and something that could be done on more pages. I love it!
• The descriptions for the friendly NPCs could more consistently describe their gameplay presence. For example, you can mention Peach is a NPC in the hub until she's kidnapped, what the Toads do, the director's presence in the park missions. Also some repetitive wording ("state of panic").
• Generally, I think wikipedia links should be for a minimum. They're mostly used to link to obscure real world concepts, or media not covered by the wiki. Having a wiki link to tanukis is fine, but more general and widely-understood concepts like "robots", "palm treets" or "introversion" are unnecessary and look forced.
• Spoils and appareance boxes: good idea. --Glowsquid (talk) 19:43, February 5, 2021 (EST)

@Nintendo101: You've done such a wonderful job in the page! Maybe I can stea-I mean borrow your ideas when composing enemy tables for other game artciles. Ray Trace^(T|C) 19:55, February 5, 2021 (EST)

It seems like the Super Mario Galaxy 2 article could use this treatment as well. Nightwicked Bowser 20:36, February 5, 2021 (EST)

Glowsquid, thank you so much! Your response was more specific than I expected and I appreciate it. This gives me a good idea on what to work on. I can try to integrate more of what you suggest within the next few days. It is sometimes challenging to strike a balance on what is too much detail, and what is not enough.

Ray Trace, yes! By all means. Anyone can use these templates.

Keyblade Master, I actually did start a preliminary draft for the NPC section of SMG2 on my user page. My progress on it has slowed because I am about to finish the game, and I honestly want to avoid spoiling some details for me. I haven't played Galaxy 2 since I was in grade school and I remember almost none of the late game stuff. I still like to be surprised in games. But I am almost done. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:58, February 5, 2021 (EST)

SMG

Hey, do you need any help for the organization of the article? I can upload cropped models of the preview planetoids before you enter the level in the dome. Such as this.

(yes it's all in one spot but I can manage it) Ray Trace^(T|C) 16:57, February 16, 2021 (EST)

Hi, Ray. I appreciate the offer for help! I'm guessing you've seen this already, but I have been working on a new level chart for Galaxy on my user sandbox. I felt the current one in the article is a bit confusing and bulky. I started with the template I set up for Sunshine and worked from there. Do you feel this is an improvement? Anything you'd do differently?

Also, I start editing things on my own personal sandbox because I sometimes start projects and I'm not sure how long they'll take, but I believe there is a communal site "sandbox" that allows users to work on the same thing together. Do you know what I'm talking about? I've never used it before so I'm not fully sure how it works, but if you'd like for us to work on this together I can move the chart there.

I appreciate the offer to render and screenshot the little galaxy preview models, but that seems like a lot of work and I'm not sure it's necessary. I personally prefer screenshots because I think they're a little more honest as to how these areas look like in-game. But that's just my opinion. Do you think the little galaxy preview models would be more serviceable? Nintendo101 (talk) 13:38, February 17, 2021 (EST)

I have indeed seen the screenshots but I feel the little planetoid previews in the domes before you enter a galaxy you see in-game are also pretty valid as well, since that's the first model players come across when selecting a level (also think Super Mario 64's article could use a preview of the level via painting but then again, not all levels are accessed through paintings). But on the flipside, I guess using noclip to view the planets is more consistent as some galaxies don't have preview models, but there's also the factor that some levels dynamically change in that you can't capture it with a single screenshot such as Freezeflame Galaxy. Maybe I should upload it into some other place than the main article, when I get official names for the planetoids on the meantime.

Yes indeed I know that there exists MarioWiki:Sandbox. Personally, I don't use sandboxes myself nor the main sandbox to do page overhauls: I edit pages live, such as my ongoing work on Yoshi's New Island and how it's still in a rather incomplete state (sometimes I put a construction tag, sometimes I just don't).

As for your work on Sunshine, I think you're doing a great job! IMO, I might curb down the use of color (as what color to use to portray a level can be seen as arbitrary and I could see edits from other users down the line debating what colors to use to represent a level) and just stick with the color the respective series infobox uses (such as sticking with greens in Yoshi's New Island as it matches its navtemplate)) but that is just a personal preference of mine and you don't have to abide by it. I also think your revision is an improvement over the current one because the screenshots are indeed a bit unwieldly using full resolution than just the cropped important bits that appear smaller to the view due requiring empty space. Ray Trace^(T|C) 00:10, February 18, 2021 (EST)

Hi, again. Yeah, the consistency issue is part of the reason why I think screenshots are a little more serviceable for the chart. But you're right - some galaxies change dramatically between missions and because some galaxies consist of many planets, one cannot really capture all the places one can go in a single image. I'm just not sure that issue is resolved with using the galaxy preview models in the chart instead because not all galaxies have them. (That issue is also present in Mario 64, but there are also situations where multiple courses have identical looking paintings in that game like Jolly Roger Bay and Dire, Dire Docks, so it may not be the best idea in that case either.) I do think the little galaxy preview models would work very well on the main articles for each galaxy, for what it's worth.

I use to edit things on the fly too, but I stopped doing that a few years ago when I was an active curator on SmashWiki. This was during the lead up to Ultimate when there was a lot of activity on the site. Article revisions were constant, and some less experienced users kept trying to undo revisions for arbitrary or mean-spirited reasons. Working on big projects in isolation before integrating them into articles was safer. But doing so may not be necessary for Mario Wiki - this place fosters a much friendlier environment.

Colors were integrated in the level charts because I think it makes it a little easier to immediately tell what info is associated with which course. I created similar figures for biology research papers I wrote while I was in undergrad and my professors thought it was a good idea. If you think it makes things more confusing or distracting than helpful, I can try to think of a different solution. If you have any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them!

I was originally going to integrate "red" in the top banner for all the charts I made for Sunshine, 64, Galaxy, and Galaxy 2, but I saw that Super Mario 3D World has yellow banners and Super Mario Odyssey has white ones, so I thought it would be okay for each game to have different colored banners. - Nintendo101 (talk) 11:09, February 18, 2021 (EST)

Hey

Just wanted to congratulate you on all the awesome work you've done. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:07, March 4, 2021 (EST)

Aww, thanks! I appreciate that, especially coming from someone as involved with the wiki as you. If you ever want help with a project on the site, feel free to ask. Also, if you have any suggestions or feedback on any of the things I have done, you're more than welcomed to let me know. I always welcome constructive criticism. – Nintendo101 (talk) 16:45, March 4, 2021 (EST)

A thing I should tell you is I separate game-rendered and data-rendered models in galleries, so if you update one type to the other, its placement there may need changed. Personally, I'd just as soon rather have both images since the visual effects on them are different. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:52, March 5, 2021 (EST)

I'll be a more more cognizant going forward. I also generally prefer separating in-game renders and data-rendered models (the former are more like game sprites). While I have you, are you by any chance familiar with noclip.website? I am interested in downloading a couple of the game's textures for utilitarian and archival reasons (e.g. the Koopa Troop jolly roger flag; air bubble; quicksand warning sign; Bubble Breeze bubble texture; etc.), but it seems like there's no clear way to download the textures directly from the site. Do you know if I'm mistaken? – Nintendo101 (talk) 10:26, March 5, 2021 (EST)

There may be 3d model rippers out there such as Ninja Ripper that can recognize when an application is using models (I tried looking up what noclips uses for renders on its website and it doesn't clarify) and could potentially rip textures from there. If not, Dolphin Emulator can dump textures as you're playing the title but you require a rom for that. I'm not too knowledgeable about Super Mario Galaxy modding so I don't know how to extract textures directly without needing to use Dolphin's dump utility. Ray Trace^(T|C) 13:45, March 5, 2021 (EST)

Ditto, the amount of effort you've been putting into your editing is amazing. Fantastic work! -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 11:23, March 5, 2021 (EST)

Re:Monster

In my opinion, I just felt the connotation of the word "monster" is too heavy for use to describe it, like using "beast" to describe a giant spider. Even though the term is technically accurate and applies to the character, it's a hinge I don't like to straddle on. Ray Trace^(T|C) 19:32, March 4, 2021 (EST)

That's totally fair. I get it. I'm personally a bit more open to something like "monster" because it is used to describe Bowser himself in the Galaxy games by NPCs, and it's something reserved to describe creatures that actively try to harm Mario, so it seems applicable. From my perspective, referring to something like Dino Piranha as a "monster" isn't too different from calling Gobblegut a "dragon".

I agree that something like "beast" or "ghastly" is too much. I'm not sure what I was thinking. I think I was trying to exercise terminology beyond just calling subjects "boss" or "enemy" because I didn't want subjects in the article to feel repetitive or formulaic to read about, and that's a trap I have fallen into in the past that I try to avoid. – Nintendo101 (talk) 19:54, March 4, 2021 (EST)

It's fine. I do think we should change up the writing at points, and I think we do need to use a good variety of words than the same repetitive writing. Contextualization is important too, if like the in-game NPCs or in-game descriptions refer to applicable beings as monsters and not in, say, a too colloquial tone, I guess we could use it. Ray Trace^(T|C) 20:20, March 4, 2021 (EST)

SMG Bolts

Hey, good work on SMG! I've noticed that for your work on the game's object, the bolt link to the disambig. Despite this, the bolts in SMG are very distinct from the DK bolts, and honestly likely weren't meant to be the same. I assume they would be split in the future? Doomhiker (talk) 16:37, March 8, 2021 (EST)

Hi, Doomhiker. Yes, I would not leave the Bolt link as it currently is in my sandbox for the final version in the main article. I think there should be a separate "Bolt (Super Mario Galaxy)" article. The same problem exists for the Water Valve, which links to a Mario vs. Donkey Kong item. It should probably have its own article too. However, my personal focus right now is just on the articles for the core Mario games, so I personally don't plan on writing up a "Bolt (Super Mario Galaxy)" article in the near future. That's something that can be addressed down the road. And thank you! I appreciate the compliment. I integrated similar revisions to the Super Mario Sunshine page. - Nintendo101 (talk) 12:53, March 9, 2021 (EST)

Show preview

If you'd like to see how your edit looks before saving, you should use "Show preview". This way, you don't flood the recent changes or the page's history with repeated edits. 17:24, March 11, 2021 (EST)

Thanks, I will keep that in mind. Today in particular, personal matters pulled me away from projects before I could finish them, hence the frequent saves. - Nintendo101 (talk) 18:07, March 11, 2021 (EST)

Re: SMG2 Site Images

I don't know if this is a feature on the browser you're using, but in Firefox there is an option called "View Page Info" in the right-click menu. From there, the new window has a "Media" tab that shows a list of all images that the page is currently using. It's how I got images like this. RHG1951 (talk) 11:49, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

Thanks! I found an extension for my browser that allows me to extract all images. It worked perfectly! - Nintendo101 (talk) 13:10, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

.jpg and .png

Hello, regarding this, please do not convert a .jpg image into a .png image, as that is against our policy. You can still remove text, though, as well as remove backgrounds on .png images. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:33, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

Thanks, I won't do so in the future. Would it be preferential that I reupload this image under its original designation? - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:59, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

Oui. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:39, March 19, 2021 (EDT)

Merci! - Nintendo101 (talk) 11:50, March 19, 2021 (EDT)

"You can still remove text, though, as well as remove backgrounds on .png images."

Only on certain images, like sprites where cropping out stuff is easy. But if an artwork comes with a background, trying to remove it tends to be messy and is also against our policy, as it would be an illegitimate image. You can read more about our policy at MarioWiki:Image use policy. 12:10, March 19, 2021 (EDT)

I do not believe cropping out "ユラリ" from the image conflicts with policy, as it is not an element of the image itself but a residual element from the book the photo was taken from. I do not believe I have removed backgrounds from isolated pieces of artwork either, because that does not meet curatorial standards. - Nintendo101 (talk) 12:20, March 19, 2021 (EDT)

A regular crop to focus on the subject is fine. 12:22, March 19, 2021 (EDT)

SMG/SMG2 sprites

Hey, just so you know, if a sprite is used in both games, it should be in the image categories for both. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 21:13, March 20, 2021 (EDT)

Hmmm not sure I agree. I think an image should be categorized with its first usage because it reflects the project that bore it, but if it's policy I'll leave the categories alone. - Nintendo101 (talk) 21:18, March 20, 2021 (EDT)

SMG Terrace Graphic

Just came across your terrace graphic on the Galaxy page and had to let you know how cool and helpful I think it is. Very well done. --Seandwalsh (talk) 18:36, April 18, 2021 (EDT)

Aww, thanks! I appreciate it. I was going for that. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:12, April 18, 2021 (EDT)

Galaxy names

Hey, so by the time I saw your message, I saw that you'd made the change from gravity arrow to Arrow Switch, so I figured you no longer see it as an issue. In case, let me explain what I meant there. Most of the names that you marked as "conjectural" were acceptable romanizations of Japanese names (though octopus is pending and I overlooked that Spring Topman is unsourced). {{conjectural|text}} is not meant for Japanese names and isn't even really used that often for subjects with articles already marked as {{conjecture}} (rather, it's more often used for minor subjects that don't have their own article). The only one that is "solely derived from internal data files" is the already-addressed Skeletal Fish Guard. It's a gray area, but more often than not, Nintendo does use final or at least descriptive names to label their files in their games. Sometimes, they'll even use localized names where you wouldn't expect, and localization will also reference internal names on occasion. Right now, internal filenames deemed understandable English are grouped under development names, meaning that they are generally considered a last resort for a proper name but will be considered as such. At some point, it was considered to give internal data its own template ala {{conjecture}} and {{another language}}, but that fell through. Again, if you have time, I'd encourage you to read through past discussions if you're confused about the application. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:48, May 9, 2021 (EDT)

Super Mario Galaxy 2 rendering

Hi, the rendered Super Mario Galaxy models was ripped from Super1033. I uploaded them to the wiki, after he passed them to me on Discord. Ask to Super1033--Alternis (talk) 05:01, January 10, 2022 (EST)

SM64 renders

Hello, our gallery for SM64 separates game renders and data renders. As such, if you update one to be the other type, I ask you change its position in the gallery (or more preferably, just have both images). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 05:23, January 10, 2022 (EST)

Thanks for the reminder. I planned on doing so. I just ran out of time. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:58, January 10, 2022 (EST)

Super Mario 3D Land/World Model Request

It's ok if you don't accept, but can you by any chance add Super Mario 3D Land/World models, like your Super Mario Galaxy ones? Also, you're doing an awesome job, keep it up! - MarioSpriters2D 5/3/2022

Ring Around the Rocks

I feel the various "ring of object" things in the SMG games should share an article. Also, Bowser Jr.'s Fearsome Fleet has a unique variation that combines it with a valve. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:25, October 4, 2022 (EDT)

I agree! Though I am not sure what name to commit to for a main article. Do you a have a video link or image of this variant from Fearsome Fleet in action? - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:28, October 4, 2022 (EDT)

I do not, but it is on the foredeck of the ship with the Wigglers if memory serves me right. It's a valve with a ring of small holes around it, with Star Bits coming out from the holes when the valve is spun from the top. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:20, October 5, 2022 (EDT)

Favorite Games

I also like Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker! ♡Toadetta♡ (talk) 21:42, November 15, 2022 (EST)

Artbook uploads

I see that throughout 2021, you uploaded a number of pieces from The Art of Super Mario Odyssey seemingly sourced directly from a digital copy of the book. I know you didn't mean wrong but I need to ask you to discontinue such practices and be more careful in the future. The ones that were officially uploaded on places like Twitter are fair deal but even if it's not literally all the content of the book, the wiki should not serve as a direct substitute for something that's still on store shelves. --Glowsquid (talk) 10:20, January 22, 2023 (EST)

Hi, Glowsquid. Thanks for reaching out. I will reframe from such uploads in the future. I only uploaded pieces I thought were interesting or noteworthy and thought it was fine considering other users have uploaded comparable pieces from scanned books in the past, but you are right - this is still a book in print. I would feel awful if this wiki and the other people who contribute to it fell under legal scrutiny from a publisher or IP-holder because I uploaded material uncritically.

I think it would be wise to pull the scans I have uploaded thus far. Do you agree? - Nintendo101 (talk) 14:05, February 1, 2023 (EST)

I've passed on your notice to the admins. I've stepped down from admin duties since April 17. --Glowsquid (talk) 11:49, May 7, 2023 (EDT)

Re: Big Boo 64

It applies to all .jpg across the board. Similarly, removing a white background in a .png artwork if fine if it's done skillfully. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:14, April 29, 2023 (EDT)

Thank you! - Nintendo101 (talk) 09:38, April 29, 2023 (EDT)

page number needed

I know that the game articles already use plenty of sources and it was a measure of convenience, but for future reference, when citing from print material, it's always preferable to include the page number. That's why {{page needed}} accompanies the {{ref needed}} template. Don't be too concerned with flooding the reference list since those subjects should get split into their own articles sooner or later. Also, when possible, specific names (usually capitalized or at least consistent) are preferred over generic descriptors (usually lowercase or one-off). Make sure you follow Naming as well; we don't normally cite in-game references unless the text is obscure or easily missed, but in-game references do have precedence over others. A few of those subjects already have articles. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:48, May 20, 2023 (EDT)

Hi, Link. Thank you for reaching out. I'll make sure to cite specific pages going forward. You're right, I was wary of having too many entries in the reference list for one article. I appreciate knowing that is okay.

I will be careful with the naming of things. I have been working on the Super Mario Galaxy page (and related articles) for awhile, and the biggest challenge I have encountered is that very few of the objects that are treated as distinct in Shogakukan and Japanese source material were given discrete English names (i.e. Yosshī Furawā and Hachi Hana have both only been called "flowers" in English material, even though they are in the same game), resulting in some ambiguity. I'm sure this is something you already know about that impacts a lot of games, but I just wanted to clarify the issue with some of the reference material available from this era.

The trapeze vs. swing thing happened so long ago that I forgot it was ever mentioned to the player in-game, so that was just an oversight on my part. Sorry about that. - Nintendo101 (talk) 17:53, May 20, 2023 (EDT)

Re: Flophopper and 3D Land artwork

The official Japan guidebook. --L151

Super Mario Galaxy reception section

Hey, I wasn't there to look at the article for Super Mario Galaxy when you nominated it to be featured, but I do have a small request to expand the reception section. I don't think just reiterating reviewers giving it a score is adequate enough for it (why did Famitsu gave it a 38/40, elaborate on big outlet opinions, etc), and it's a stark contrast to an otherwise excellent very well done article. Ray Trace^(T|C) 23:21, July 10, 2023 (EDT)

Hi, Ray. Yes, I agree this section can be expanded, but it may be a little while before I can get around to it. - Nintendo101 (talk) 22:39, July 12, 2023 (EDT)

RE: English Mario Portal oddity

Yeah, it's still wonky. It alternates between the two languages every second time the link is opened. I've also seen that if the language is changed to Japanese and you open next page, it's stuck in Japanese as usual. As I said in edit summary, this seems to affect desktops/laptops only, mobile phones seem to work without problems. Just make sure the url contains /mario/en/ and the Portal should be in English. SmokedChili (talk) 11:20, November 27, 2023 (EST)

I just checked this: if en is added manually, it may still open the page in Japanese. But at least the language selection at the bottom works correctly regardless. SmokedChili (talk) 11:49, November 27, 2023 (EST)

iQue Player controller

I saw this upload, and I wanted to say that there is actually an L button on the iQue controller. As seen in this image, it appears that Mario Kart 64 makes use of it too. Super Game Gear (talk) 16:19, December 2, 2023 (EST)

That's weird! In the SM64 manual, the same button is labeled a Z button. Maybe That was something they did specifically to communicate SM64's controls, because its placement on the console would make more sense as an "L" button. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:31, December 2, 2023 (EST)

It is clear from this video by Nintendrew that the iQue Player has both an L and R button, with a Z button below the L button, so both are present. I have uploaded an L button option for the iQue to Template:Button for those interested. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:26, December 4, 2023 (EST)

Chart template

You're a trooper!

Shokora (talk · edits) 04:23, January 31, 2024 (EST)

Thank you. I'm glad I could help out! - Nintendo101 (talk) 13:45, January 31, 2024 (EST)

RE:Pendulum

It's apparently a name taken from New Super Mario Bros. U's Coin Collection video descriptions. You might want to ask LinkTheLefty if you want further info. ^(T|C) 21:39, February 22, 2024 (EST)

I'll check it out. Thank you! - Nintendo101 (talk) 21:42, February 22, 2024 (EST)

Rotating bar

Okay, I respect your reverting my edit, but do you mind if I put "only" in the right place? See "The Correct Placement of Only" on this webpage. Dwhitney (talk) 23:08, March 24, 2024 (EDT)

Hi, Dwhitney. Thank you for providing a point of reference. We were almost talking past each other there. Is this better? "Only" is now modifying the preposition "in", as opposed to the verb "found". - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:38, March 24, 2024 (EDT)

Yes, that's grammatically correct. Dwhitney (talk) 00:25, March 25, 2024 (EDT)

Proposal cleaned up

I cleaned up my proposal by adding the <pre> tags. You should take a look at what the template will look like from above. What do you think how my proposal looks? GuntherBayBeee 21:25, March 30, 2024 (EDT)

Chain expansion request

What chains are you referring to in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and New Super Mario Bros. U in the expansion request that you recently added to Chain (object)? Having created the article and played these games, I’d very much like to add coverage for them in the article but a tip on which level(s) they appeared in would be a huge help. Thanks. Pseudo (talk) (contributions) 01:25, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Howdy! In some castle levels, you can swing from chains instead of the usual vines. It's just a cosmetic difference - they both work like rope swings. Here are their models for reference. There should be guides on the Internet Archives for both NSMBW and NSMBU that outline where they occur specifically in the game. If you want additional help tracking this info down, feel free to let me know. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:06, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Oh yeah, makes sense! I appreciate the resources you sent, I'll have the info added to the article ASAP. Pseudo (talk) (contributions) 17:35, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

RE: Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

Thank you so much! I decided to work on it since it has been under construction for so long, I'm glad that it's working out! Yook Bab-imba 18:02, April 28, 2024 (EDT)

Peppers category

Yeah, my knowledge of botany remains limited. I just searched "pepper" on Wikipedia, and came to the article on Piperaceae. Thanks to my hasty impatience, I linked it on the category page without paying much attention to which kind of "pepper" it referred to. My mistake! :P Thanks for correcting that, though. Yet again, this wiki is educational beyond the Super Mario franchise... SolemnStormcloud (talk) 17:40, May 2, 2024 (EDT)

No worries! I mess up my plant families all the time, and I've had field jobs identifying them. It does not help that common names are often a red herring for the true relatedness between species, especially among plants, and that is always annoying. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:09, May 2, 2024 (EDT)

Template talk:Profiles and statistics

I think your opinion on this would be valuable, so I'm inviting you to share it. I don't mean to force your hand or anything, but I do think, in light of recent discussions, that this topic requires a candid debate as well given its, I think, striking similarity to the case of Mario Kart Tour icons. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 20:35, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Sure! I'd be happy to check this out at some point. - Nintendo101 (talk) 08:52, May 15, 2024 (EDT)

Yoshis and turtles

Hi, I saw you removed Category:Yoshis from Category:Turtles. I want to point out that in this interview they are explicitly called turtles. Blinker (talk) 08:48, June 8, 2024 (EDT)

Enemy tables

We need a compromise. You're referring to an enemy as singular in the "Name" column, but you're describing the enemy starting with an incomplete sentence as plural in the "Description" column. I read in a grammar book that if a word is singular in one sentence or a part of a sentence but is referred to as plural with a plural pronoun without the word's plural form in another sentence or another part of a sentence, it's not grammatically correct. (e.g., You can drink from a straw. They do not always bend.) I'm trying to make the table grammatically correct because singular ≠ plural. Dwhitney (talk) 14:41, June 10, 2024 (EDT)

Howdy. To clarify my approach to writing, I am not a linguistic purist or an etymological fallacist. My view of language is more utilitarian, and what constitutes as "good writing" is not necessarily grammatically correct (nor does it "have" to be). So while this supposed rule you mention is wholly new to me, and frankly a little unclear to understand, I do not personally find it inherently meaningful.

I should also clarify that I view enemies as analogous to species, and these tables as comparable to entries in field guides and similar books. (For NPCs, I tend to interpret them as people first and species second, and there are some individual characters that share the same name as their species, hence the slight differences in how I handle these tables.) My career IRL is in the natural sciences, so these are texts I have a lot of personal familiarity with. While individual books tend to adopt different overarching principals, the general trend is that headers are presented singularly. In the main body paragraphs, subjects are often (but not consistently) discussed in the singular initially, but transition to plural where needed in the paragraphs, and back again when necessary. It is not uncommon for field guides in particular to not adhere to grammatical standards in their listings. I have provided some examples here. Text underlined in red represent singular use of nouns, blue indicates plural usage, and green conveys sentences that deliberately do not adhere to grammatical principals. There may have been a few I missed in the other books.

A difference between these books and how I have written the enemy tables is that a species inherently is represented by many individuals. In Super Mario games, where there is sometimes enemies represented by only one individual, I think pluralizing subjects in the descriptions for enemies where there are multiple members in the game is intuitively clarifying. If singular, there is only one. Like the books I cite above, I rather keep the name columns for enemies singular. As mentioned in the previous revision on the Super Mario 64 page, I do not think it is explicitly necessary to open the description by repeating the name of the subject. It is redundant and does not, in my view, make the description better. With the exception of Reeves et al. (2002), this is exemplified in at least some of the material I presented above as well, specifically the description for the common goldfish, the West Indian manatee, and the hummingbirds.

I hope this was helpful. What type of compromise would you want to see? - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:54, June 10, 2024 (EDT)

I'll clarify what I said in the example sentences I gave: In the first sentence, the singular noun "straw" is used, but in the second sentence, the pronoun "They" is used to refer to the plural noun "straws." However, "straws" isn't used in the first or second sentence, so there's no mentioned noun that "They" can refer to. In some of the examples you gave me (particularly the headings and descriptive paragraphs), correct grammar is used. In the descriptive sections with incomplete sentences, your writing format of tables is used. I guess I can ask Mario jc about this talk and get his opinion. Dwhitney (talk) 17:31, June 10, 2024 (EDT)

Appreciation and New Challenge

I really appreciate your contributions to the discussion on Whacka as it helped me understand the policy more thoroughly than what anyone else had offered. You also made some helpful notes in my Grifty proposal, but now I find myself in a similar situation with Podley. To avoid flooding proposals with what turn out to be one-sided positions, I created a section on Talk:Podley because it seems there's been a years' long debate whether or not he's Beanish. Since you've been so helpful in the other, similar debates, I'd appreciate your insight on how to approach the situation as well. Dr. Baskerville 18:24, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

Would you mind adding your edit summary to the talk page, please, so we can reference it in debate? Dr. Baskerville 22:29, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

Sure thing! Sorry, I was lazy. - Nintendo101 (talk) 22:30, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

In regards to my tables

You told me you had trouble with some of my wider tables on mobile, so I have pushed an update to them that makes it so they squish on the thinnest screens (and incidentally, shrinks down the images you felt were unneeded to be practically invisible). I'd appreciate if you looked at the MKW retro course table now and tell me on that page's talk whether I did good or not. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:28, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

I have brought up the possibility of removing the ghost data and putting it on the ghost page, or at the very least having my course tables and WaluigiTime's ghost tables separately, as I feel both are better than the pre-edit counterparts. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:45, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

Hi, sorry about that. I misread the end of your message. I thought you wanted me to reply on your own talk page.

To be clear, I don't necessarily know offhand what is the best info to keep and what is not. Despite my cringy username, I am not an expert on all things Nintendo. I feel like I would have to try making a Mario Kart table from scratch or something and think critically about it. Ghost data might be important. However, principally, from my background in science, I know it is best to avoid including the same information in a document in multiple ways. For example, I think your tables look best on the Super Mario Kart article. However, even here, the individual values on the drivers table are on the performance chart in the same article, so I would either remove that info from the driver table or remove the performance chart from the article entirely.

That was the primary reason why I recommended keeping only artwork or icons of characters, karts, etc. in tables, not both. I suspect it would even make these tables scale better across displays if some of the visual information was removed.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm giving you a needlessly hard time. I can tell you put a lot of effort into the tables. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:02, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

The performance chart in the SMK article is actually more about performance on individual courses, not stats (though there is a couple) XD. I just borrowed the symbols since they roughly matched up. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:09, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

The triangle looks so sad :< - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:10, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

Anywhays, I did the thing with the ghost data, so now the race tracks are laid out more like the battle courses. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:04, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

Congrats on becoming a patroller!

Congratulations on becoming a patroller Nintendo101! You've earned it for being such a great user! Sparks (talk) 11:58, July 11, 2024 (EDT)

^Ditto. Congratulations! Well deserved! -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:36, July 11, 2024 (EDT)

Thank you both so much! - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:08, July 11, 2024 (EDT)

Just saw that you're now a patroller. Congrats, great job, and keep up hard work! Mari0fan100 (talk) 12:31, July 12, 2024 (EDT)

Thanks a bunch! - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:45, July 12, 2024 (EDT)

NSMB boss list

Why did your wip remove the normal Bowser Jr. and the alternate Bowser in favor of just the alternate Bowser Jr. and the normal Bowser? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:32, July 17, 2024 (EDT)

I'm still playing around with it, so nothing here is final, but paratext for New Super Mario Bros. indicates there is one Bowser boss, and he is just larger in the second encounter. (Curious to know if you offhand agree with how they conceptually lump those boss battles together.) I usually only commit to one image reference for individuals - if it's a multimembered species or a subject that has radically different forms I may include it if it does not distort the shape of the table. I personally didn't think Bowser Jr. looked different enough between encounters to justify the inclusion of two sprites. I kept the alternate sprite of him only because I felt it looked a little dynamic and I liked that about it. It's a similar case with Bowser - yes, he is larger in the second encounter, but since this current draft of the table treats Bowser as a single boss that is encountered twice, I did not want to incorporate two images of him. I thought keeping the sprite of his initial appearance was serviceable. I'd rather only include the big Bowser sprite if we committed to listing it separately in its own dedicated row. Does that make sense? - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:04, July 17, 2024 (EDT)

I guess it makes sense, but given functional differences I find it more sensible to include both. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:34, July 17, 2024 (EDT)

Smash images

A lot of those were not actually supposed to be tagged for deletion, they were just marked as such by a user who misunderstood a proposal and refused to clean up their mess. Please undelete them. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:55, July 19, 2024 (EDT)

Hi, Doc. Do you remember where this was discussed prior, and could you direct me to it? Because those images were sitting there for months. You could tag me on Mario Boards if discourse was held there. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:00, July 19, 2024 (EDT)

See this conversation, relevant proposal links included. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:02, July 19, 2024 (EDT)

Thank you. In our defense, someone previously familiar with that discussion could have reintegrated those screenshots if they wanted to or at least remove the deletion tags.

Sparks and I are attempting to delineate whether this is something we can do, otherwise we may need to wait for someone of a higher ranking position to be available. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:15, July 19, 2024 (EDT)

The screenshots have been restored by porplemontage (talk). You will find them in Special:UnusedFiles. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:28, July 20, 2024 (EDT)

Princess vs. Toadstool

While I understand the reverts on my edits trying to include other playanle characters, I see no reason why Toadstool should be reverted back to Princess. She is clearly stated to be "Princess Toadstool" in the manual, the only usage of simply "princess" is the credits. Wario World (talk)

Howdy! On page 5, they also refer to Peach as "Princess" with Toadstool in parentheses, so my interpretation of the game's script is that "Princess" is the preferred shorthand for her in Super Mario Bros. 2. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:58, August 11, 2024 (EDT)

NSMBW renders

Those mostly look excellent, but is there a way to make them be colored less.... like Mario Sports Superstars artwork? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:58, August 15, 2024 (EDT)

Thank you! And I probably could. I am still a little inexperienced with Blender, but I still have all of these models saved so I could change attributes a bit more in the future. I agree they look a little less saturated than they do in-game.

It may be as simple as my source of lighting in Blender. I have been using HDRs to create a consistent unifying environment for these renders, and that can really change how a model appears. You can see how different lit environments can change how a model looks in the file history for Fish Bone, for example. - Nintendo101 (talk) 08:41, August 15, 2024 (EDT)

Real quick, in the link I provided on HDR environments, there are little spheres at the bottom of each preview to showcase how they would look in that environment. If there is one you feel looks good for New Super Mario Bros. Wii, feel free to let me know. - Nintendo101 (talk) 08:49, August 15, 2024 (EDT)

Heh, lighting's always an issue in Blender. I'd probably start with one of the Kloofendal ones, personally. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:42, August 15, 2024 (EDT)

Openers

I'm letting you know I saw your message. I felt that it was sort of a tough one because like, let's say, "Bob-ombs in" or "Bob-ombs appear in" suggest that they originate from outside the Super Mario franchise, like generic subjects, and I tried to think of a good way to phrase it. Or perhaps I'm overthinking things. Super Mario RPG (talk) 09:04, August 23, 2024 (EDT)

Hey, sorry for the late reply. I was at work for most of the day.

I think I understand what you mean. I think writing the enemy articles can be inherently a little tough because they should be comfortable to read as one page and in pieces (for folks who want specific information for one game). However, I think if the opening paragraph says (and I'll use a different example because Bob-ombs did emerge in Doki Doki Panic before appearing in Mario):

Spinies are enemies in the Super Mario franchise that debuted in Super Mario Bros. yada yada

You have already clarified that Spinies, first and foremost, are enemies in the Super Mario franchise. It becomes a bit monotonous, clinical, and not super fun to read to further clarify for every game entry in the history section that "Spiny is an enemy in NAME OF GAME HERE" because:

1. The opening paragraph said Spinies are enemies, so this is not new information for the reader. They have already been told it is an enemy.
2. The reader also already knows it is in NAME OF GAME HERE because we use the games as subheadings in the history sections. If it was not in the game, it would not have an entry here, so this information is also not new.

The space would better be focused on describing Spinies presence in NAME OF GAME HERE in design, mechanics, etc. and how this differs from NAME OF GAME HERE 2 or NAME OF GAME KART. The only contexts where one needs to specify what a Spiny is would be the few instances where it is not an enemy because that would be a legitimate deviation from what has already been established in the opening paragraph. Does that make some sense? - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:22, August 23, 2024 (EDT)

It does. I suppose a "Spinies appear in [media name]" is simple enough, if going by the fact that's fulfilling their default role. Super Mario RPG (talk) 23:28, August 23, 2024 (EDT)

Are you sure individual entries in the history sections need to have the same opener? In my experience at least, articles are more enjoyable and engaging to read if the individual pieces in them were not written the same way just with subtle variation. For example, instead of saying "Spinies appear in [media name]" for each entry, one could say "Spinies appear only within [level name] in [media name]. It is an underground course where they drop from the ceiling." for one game, and then for the next game the opener can be "In [media name 2], Spinies were given a radically different design but inherent much of the same function as in previous games. yada yada." - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:51, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

I suppose I just wonder under which terms which sentence opener would be used and when, just so then it's clear others what to use and when. "[subject] appears in" is like if they fulfill a default role (e.g. "Goomba appears in Super Mario Bros.") and then "Goomba is a playable character in Super Mario Party" if the role is different. Super Mario RPG (talk) 22:56, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

Appreciate the proposal input

Just came here to say that I appreciate the input you gave in the comments on the proposal. I added another voting option based on your feedback (keep artwork but nix screenshots). However, the proposal's gone on for about three days, so since my proposal began August 21, is this the last day I can made alterations to it (that is, mainly the last to add additional voting options if needed)? I'm not soliciting votes and I don't mind if you oppose ultimately, since proposals are about whether users agree or disagree with what's being presented. Super Mario RPG (talk) 12:58, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

It is completely fine to have reached out :)

I do appreciate you carving an option out based on my inquiry, but I still have some reservations. While I do generally prefer main game articles are more holistically complete (regardless of whether they are crossovers) and I do agree with Doc von Schmeltwick's point that what crossover material warrants coverage on Super Mario Wiki is inherently unclear for any visitor, Smash Wiki truly has an excellent Poké Ball article and full coverage for the hazards as well. Perhaps our articles could better be understood as harbors that can direct readers to those SmashWiki pages and simply touch upon them briefly in our main game articles. (I do wish Smash Wiki included little visual previews for what the Pokémon look like on their article, but that is someone those users can integrate if they would like.) I agree we do not need full lists on Poké Ball Pokémon, non-Mario Assist Trophies, stages, etc.

However, I do appreciate that the the crossover material of Smash Bros. is a bit more mechanically intimate than something like NES Remix or Nintendo Land: the Pokémon released from Poké Balls can physically attack Mario, Luigi, and the other Mario characters in the games, and that detail is not diluted simply because they can also do this to Marth or Sephiroth as well. So I do understand why other users would want to hang onto this material.

Additionally, I disagree with Doc on principal that we should "never delete anything ever." There are no sacred assets uploaded to the wiki, and it is a shared space. It should be okay and uncontroversial to delete unused files. But I am also a bit wary of supporting proposals that hamstring what other users can or cannot write about. I do not personally know to what degree Smash Bros. is within our scope of coverage. But if large swaths of the userbase want to cover that stuff, I do not think that is such a bad thing. To be clear, the inverse is true as well. If most folks wanted all of this stuff removed, I would think that is fine. Smash Wiki exists, and it is an active community. I'm just not sure it's my place to put my thumb on the scale. - Nintendo101 (talk) 21:32, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

I don't mind you having reservations. The "large swaths" is about half the community who wants to keep Smash Bros. coverage. The non-Super Mario challenges being removed from the pages was quite a big one to pass. Some users wanting to hold on to the SSB content can be understandable, though if it's because they have issues with other wikis, I think it will be better if members of both communities discuss the matter. Super Mario RPG (talk) 22:56, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

Concern

On the comments of my Poke Ball proposal, there's a user who said "Anyone who prefers this method should go ahead and oppose this proposal so that this method can be proposed instead." Said user admits to vehemently opposing the proposal, so does this count as soliciting votes and therefore a courtesy violation? Users are free to vote as they please on proposals, but this genuinely hurt my feelings because it's explicitly telling others to oppose the proposal using what I think is a sly and cleverly crafted argument. Super Mario RPG (talk) 03:51, August 27, 2024 (EDT)

I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt. I do not know where this type of behavior intersects with our policies, but I agree the "spirit" of it is not in the right place. I will ask more experienced staff what they think in the morning.

In my experience, the user you are referring to genuinely means well, but can be quite obstinate. She is sometimes so invested in a position that she does not critically consider how others may think or feel. But it's also worth considering how much personal investment she has put into some of the material that is being cut back in proposals like this, and while this does not excuse it, I think it at least contextualizes some of her abrasiveness. - Nintendo101 (talk) 04:37, August 27, 2024 (EDT)

Thank you. I wanted to be courteous by not giving the user name, since the point is not to instigate drama, but because it was a covert attempt at derailing my proposal, after this much progress had been made on it. And I'm still hurt by it. I understand the user wants to cover, though I feel that there's no viable solution since if someone wanted to cover Smash Bros. it would be best to do in a place where they are not restricted to just game pages. Only the N64 Smash Bros. page has elaborate descriptions and listings of Pokemon, so she hasn't made significant progress on the proposal. Super Mario RPG (talk) 04:55, August 27, 2024 (EDT)

Hi, again. I have touched base with other staff, and while we agree that this does not constitute vote solicitation as outlined in our policies. Soliciting would entail reaching out to other users and telling them how to vote. - Nintendo101 (talk) 12:58, August 27, 2024 (EDT)

It still felt unethical. Super Mario RPG (talk) 13:01, August 27, 2024 (EDT)

Hi, sorry I've been abrasive recently, I'm a bit overwhelmed right now and I took enough issue with the proposed changes it almost felt like a personal attack, which led to me reacting accordingly. I know that it wasn't actually directed against me, so I apologize for lashing out in it. As for the statement on my proposed version, I thought about whether it would violate solicitation guidelines before I added that, and it didn't feel any more like solicitation than trying to persuade people to vote in favor of it in the proposal header. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:25, August 27, 2024 (EDT)

Did my proposal pass?

I saw an attempt to extend it, but Rule 9 says a majority of the total number of voters for a proposal with more than two voting options have to vote in one of the options for it to qualify (rather than spread throughout). And a three-vote margin is for two-option proposals with at least ten votes on one side. See my edit summary. Super Mario RPG (talk) 20:12, August 28, 2024 (EDT)

It started as a two-option proposal, and I'm unsure if it counts if all but two options are empty anyway; it might as well be a two-option one in that case and be treated as such. Now I'll admit, the rules on these are convoluted and inconsistent, so I don't know, but that's how it looked to me. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:18, August 28, 2024 (EDT)

It did, but it ended as a proposal with four options (and I was the sole vote in the second and third options, as secondary and third, respectively, but was in the thin majority support). I don't see anything in the rules that say that a proposal has to be started as two-option or two-or-more-options proposal to affect quorum. Super Mario RPG (talk) 20:20, August 28, 2024 (EDT)

I think "adding more options later that no one's gonna vote for to dodge the margin rule" is a bit disingenuous, personally. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:22, August 28, 2024 (EDT)

That's not what happened. I added a few more options based on user feedback (including the artworks one for Nintendo101 to consider, but he didn't end up voting for that option), though nobody selected either of those two options. Super Mario RPG (talk) 20:25, August 28, 2024 (EDT)

@Super Mario RPG your proposal must be extended by another week, per rule 9, which states, in full:

Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.

@Doc von Schmeltwick please do not make bad-faith assumptions into why a fellow user makes the choices they do. It is not kind. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:37, August 28, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah, I got snippy because I was edit conflicted, sorry again - honestly, though, it is a potential issue that may need ironed out before it's actually abused. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:42, August 28, 2024 (EDT)

So isn't that a pass for the proposal then, since 9 out of 17 users voted for one option? Or are you counting SMPRG's other votes as separate voters so that in becomes 9 out of 19? SmokedChili (talk) 07:42, August 29, 2024 (EDT)

@SmokedChili I think it is, since voters refers to how many people are voting, rather than the total number of votes altogether. Super Mario RPG (talk) 09:11, August 29, 2024 (EDT)

It's a pass. The rule makes reference to "voters", not "votes". More than half of the total number of voters in the proposal voted in full support of it. (And yes, I'm aware of how absurd the idea of half a person voting is, but math is math: 9 > 8.5 😛) -- KOOPA CON CARNE 09:58, August 29, 2024 (EDT)

@Super Mario RPG yes, your proposal had passed. I overlooked the semantics of rule 9. Sorry about that! - Nintendo101 (talk) 10:04, August 29, 2024 (EDT)

It's okay. Super Mario RPG (talk) 10:09, August 29, 2024 (EDT)

Very well. Expect my proposal at the end of September. Please do not make further proposals that relate to what mine will cover but don't "technically" have to do with your previous one, as that would take advantage of the time buffer that I need to abide by and force me to push it back even further. Thank you. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:29, August 29, 2024 (EDT)

In regards to omnibus Smash proposal

People keep trying to make piecemeal Smash proposals despite the fact that I have this proposal upcoming (and you explicitly requesting people not continue doing so), which would force mine back another four weeks each time since mine covers everything. What am I to do? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:15, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

Accept that this is a community-run wiki and not your own. Super Mario RPG (talk) 19:20, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

I didn't ask you. I asked the person who explicitly requested people stop doing exactly what I'm talking about. (also 🍲🫖) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:30, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

Yes, and this concerns a proposal that I did that passed. This wiki's a democracy, so naturally users would be expressing that through the form of proposals. I had no plans to create any further Super Smash Bros. proposals, but chances are that I'll be supporting more that make the articles more Super Mario-focused. I think Nintendo101 advised and recommended I cancel my proposal, but never wanted to force it. Super Mario RPG (talk) 19:33, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

The kind thing to do would be to allow the omnibus proposal to be made rather than pushing it back and outright taunting the fact that it's being delayed from that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:39, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

This seems like an issue where you two need to work something out together. I recommend both of you try to hold off the debate in this talk page right now until Nintendo101 can formulate some advice. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:46, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

Howdy! Super Mario RPG is correct, and I am not going to tell another user what they can make proposals on. But Doc, if you are truly invested in making a broad-reaching Smash Bros. proposal, I would let Mushzoom (talk) know in the comments of their proposal or their talk page, explaining the benefits of doing one large proposal, and asking if they would like to help out with it.

With that being said, the outcomes Doc laid out in the Poké Ball proposal comments seemed a lot more granular in scope than I envisioned. In democracies, decisions made by the public involve few, concise, and easily understandable options that clearly set the trajectory for future actions. So rather than draft a proposal that litigates "let's move list article A into game article X, and let's subdivide article Q into game articles X, Y, and Z," etc., I would make a proposal that determines if the community at large wants non-Mario Smash Bros. material covered on the wiki, and if "yes", how much? Options can range from full coverage to no coverage, with several other options in between. I think that would more meaningfully get to the heart of this curatorial divide in the userbase. - Nintendo101 (talk) 22:54, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

As it was, I got a lot of support for what I laid out considering the short amount of time it was in the proposal comments. Since it's mostly based around rearranging what's already there to match how other game pages handle the same basic types of subjects, it should be fine. But I appreciate the input. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:48, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

I just had a brilliant idea: Perhaps StrategyWiki would like the Smash Bros. tables. At least there, the scope is defined more clearly as strategy guides for video games in general. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:50, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

I can see the appeal of doing that, but I personally think Smash Wiki does an excellent job of covering that material themselves, and that is generally where people interested in the Smash Bros. series are inclined to go. And I at least do not know anyone at StrategyWiki, so I do not know if that community would be receptive to such additions.

@Super Mario RPG, this is tangential and I do not know if you are aware, but I have been drafting a "crossover article" concept using The Legend of Zelda as a base, highlighting where it intersects with Super Mario. I think it has the potential to be a more serviceable consolidation of information otherwise scattered across the wiki. It's still in an early stage, and there are part so it that I am unsure need to be kept, but you are welcomed to provide feedback on it or contribute to it. It can be found right here. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:03, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah I saw that. I think it's interesting and well suited for this wiki because it talks about Super Mario involvement directly, rather than neutral involvement between all franchises represented in Smash Bros. Super Mario RPG (talk) 19:07, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

Thank you. Do you have any advice, recommendations, or revisions you'd recommend? I have not made a wholly original article like this in awhile, and I do not have much of a base for structural reference. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:16, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

Re:Zelda

I think that is an excellent manner of covering related series; I was actually considering doing something similar for Sonic to catalogue all the potshots Nintendo and Sega took at each other's mascots back in the day. (And just by the way, I'd be honored if you joined Triforce Wiki, since you said you were on Zelda Wiki before they got bogged down with... questionable decisions.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:55, September 2, 2024 (EDT)

I appreciate the kind words and the invitation, but I think I will remain focused on Super Mario for the time being.

If I was to seriously engage with Zelda coverage again, I would likely do it through Zelda Wiki because despite some systemic choices, it remains the Zelda wiki I am most familiar with. Their acquisition by a for-profit company made engagement intolerable in a way systemic editing choices weren't (like the integration of tabs in the infoboxes, which I still don't care for), but they have reclaimed their independence and that was greatly welcomed. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:01, September 2, 2024 (EDT)

OK. I'd consider ZeldaWiki's main issue to be wholehearted embracing of "Brazilian aardvark"-style roundabout-citing (thanks to Dark Horse) and whatever's going on here and here, and the people currently in charge don't seem to have any issue with either situation. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:48, September 6, 2024 (EDT)

I completely agree with you that that was a major curatorial mistake on their part, but there are avenues to change that on Zelda Wiki, just like Super Mario Wiki. If I ever got around to wanting to seriously engage with Zelda material, I would certainly push for that. Sometimes it takes a fresh voice for a good idea to be realized by a community. But we'll see. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:36, September 6, 2024 (EDT)

"please be courteous to your fellow users."

Nothing I said was discourteous. Please stop framing any and all criticism of wiki activity as a personal attack, it's sanctimonious and annoying. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 13:03, September 6, 2024 (EDT)

Howdy. I agree, it would be disingenuous to frame criticisms of the wiki as personal attacks, and it is not something I practice. Substantive critique is how things improve. However, regardless of the intent, stating "15 people voted for this nonsense, one even calling it a "no-brainer"" is not only a criticism of the wiki or a proposal. It is a criticism of people and their ideas, and a condescending one at that. It does not bring us towards substantive debate or outcomes for the site, and I do not hold qualms for discouraging that behavior when I see it (or in this case, when other users bring it up to staff themselves), especially for users who contribute a lot to the site. - Nintendo101 (talk) 14:06, September 6, 2024 (EDT)

But... it's what happened, no? A lot of people eagerly cast their votes in support of a very questionable decision that was almost immediately criticized when enacted. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 14:23, September 6, 2024 (EDT)

It seems the folks critical about the outcome of the proposal were the same exact users who voted to oppose it, so I do not really see the point in your statement. But that also does not matter because folks can always criticize such things on Super Mario Wiki. The issue comes from insinuating that other users are thoughtless or stupid, which is what some have expressed in response to your earlier comment. To be honest with you, it is not uncommon for your comments in proposals and talk pages to go beyond substantively criticizing the site or ideas, to being abrasive and obstinate towards other users and their perspectives. This has sometimes made folks feel discouraged from engaging in discussions with you. I tell you this because you are an excellent contributor and mature enough to hear that, and probably do not want to come across that way. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:21, September 6, 2024 (EDT)

Thoughts on this Koopa page redesign?

I've been working on a thing, loosely inspired by how wikipedia handles taxon articles, though adapted to fit a "video game creatures" context. I already moved the top portion to the main article because I got favorable feedback on it. What do you think? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:39, September 10, 2024 (EDT)

You know it's funny - I mentioned to LeftyGreenMario the other day that the way Wikipedia supports multiple taxa in the infoboxes for some clades looked appealing and may work for a few of our pages. I can give finer points later this week, but from my cursory glance, it looks nice :) - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:44, September 10, 2024 (EDT)

SSB items wikitable

Would you be okay that my revision of List of Super Smash Bros. series items stays intact? It got reverted, citing no discussion, but I did the edit so I could bring it up with others, such as you. I remember there was discussion over these new wikitables on several games of the Super Mario franchise, and even a proposal for the Mario Kart Wii one, so it seems unfair that it was originally expected the Mario Kart Wii tables intact but not mine, which I worked for hours on. Super Mario RPG (talk) 17:00, September 13, 2024 (EDT)

Hi. I understand how you feel, and it can sometimes be difficult to gauge what would be a controversial change and what would not be, but if one is introducing a revision that changes the entirety of a large article, it does not hurt to bring it up in a talk page first. It does not always mean there are problems with the revision, just that the scale of it on principal warrants discussion. It is a shared space.

I hope you don't feel discouraged. A while ago, I moved the Purple Coin Ball article to Star Ball because I viewed it as an innocuous revision, but it was reversed by staff and I was encouraged to bring it up on the former's talk page first. I ultimately did, where it received support and eventual integration. - Nintendo101 (talk) 18:14, September 13, 2024 (EDT)

I'm okay now, especially since Doc, to my surprise, liked where I was headed with the wikitable idea, so I moved discussion to the corresponding talk page to get further consensus from other editors. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:22, September 13, 2024 (EDT)

Once and only once

I'm aware that the fact I'm on last warnings may not help my case, but I personally felt patronized and gaslit when I was accused of making "sweeping changes" for something applying only to four pages based on what's expressly written in the title of MarioWiki:Once and only once. On another note, I don't try to revert more than twice. It's like "I make a point from this, someone does a counterpoint, I do a counterpoint, followed by a possible second counterpoint." Super Mario RPG (talk) 12:36, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

I am sorry, I was spending time with my family. What incident(s) are you referring to? - Nintendo101 (talk) 13:49, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

Past warnings that don't apply to this circumstance. Super Mario RPG (talk) 13:51, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

I understand that, sorry if that was unclear. I mean what is the current circumstance you are referring to? - Nintendo101 (talk) 13:54, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

I'm referring to the "sweeping changes" on the DKC remake pages (see the edit history of the DKC GBC page). The DKC remake pages with duplicate information concerns only four pages, and I trimmed the bosses section to only the bosses to reflect that they are no different besides graphics, like all other assets in remakes. Super Mario RPG (talk) 14:00, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

I agree it can sometimes be unclear what constitutes as an innocuous change vs. a "sweeping change," and I have experienced that first hand such as here and here. But generally, rather than see how many pages are directly impacted by one's changes, consider if it is covering something sensitive like a unique release of or subjects from a prominent game (which Donkey Kong Country definitely would be considered to be).

Can you provide examples of places where you have felt patronized or gaslit? - Nintendo101 (talk) 14:30, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

Perhaps we can leave it be. At least the edit I made on DKC GBC that removed the redundant tables from the bosses section hadn't been removed. Super Mario RPG (talk) 14:32, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

I haven't removed it because I'm waiting to see where this conversation goes. I stand by my statement that you should get a proposal, or at the very least get more consensus than just yourself. (The only other person in that conversation was me, and I was opposing it). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:46, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

@Super Mario RPG it seems that Doc and you had a back and forth exchange where she respectfully asked you to raise a proposal before making cuts to the Donkey Kong Country article, and you did it anyways just two minutes after her last reply. And that you were the one to even include the "once and only once" rule in the rewrite template at the top the page. Would you agree that is correct? - Nintendo101 (talk) 15:50, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

In regards to Smash and crossovers

I saw your Zelda crossover page and Doc's Smash proposal (which I didn't know about until it was mentioned in my music proposal), and I was wondering...what are your plans for your crossover idea? I feel like crossover franchise pages would make some of the lists Doc is proposing to keep unnecessary. Mushzoom (talk) 23:12, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

Howdy! For clarity, I have not coordinated anything with Doc, and while I have shared my Zelda draft with her, I don't think I explicitly clarified what I would want it to be used for. Because while I am not concerning myself with what material should be in our main game articles on Smash Bros., this crossover article concept would impact Smash Bros. list articles. I generally do not think we cover crossover material in a satisfactory way, with a lot of it distributed across the wiki in pieces or with emphasis put in the wrong places. I am still working on my Zelda article, and I am still drafting a proposal to neatly encapsulate what I would like these articles to do, but my overall intentions with a crossover franchise/series article is to:

1. Move all relevant information currently listed on List of references in Nintendo video games to a dedicated article alongside information representing the inverse. For my example, it would be everything listed under The Legend of Zelda alongside references to Zelda in the Mario franchise. The latter is well documented and covered here and there on the wiki, but not in one convenient place.
2. Funnel relevant redirects and disambiguation pages relevant to the franchise to this article. For example, Octorok and The Legend of Zelda would bring users to this page instead of their current destinations.
3. Move information on relevant Super Smash Bros. fighter list articles to this one, with less emphasize on granular Smash Bros. details (i.e. special moves, Classic Mode routes, etc.) and more general information emphasizing how the franchise of interest is covered in individual titles (similar to Smash Wiki's universe articles, but less detailed) and how it intersects with Mario content in specific games. As an example, the entries for Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf on List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee would instead direct readers to this Zelda crossover article. Searching up "Princess Zelda" or "Ganondorf" will bring you to this article instead. This may be controversial for some because it would involve cutting specific details that are better covered on Smash Wiki, but I personally think it would be better than using the current fighter list articles, which are cumbersome to read and confusingly include details not related to Smash Bros. at all. I also think it would be a better compromise between those who want full coverage of Smash content and those who want none of it. I hope it is clear from the draft I have that many of the characters and enemies in Smash Bros. have legitimately crossed-over and interacted with Mario in other contexts, and I do think that is interesting information worth highlighting considering Mario is Nintendo's tentpole franchise.
4. Create a structural reference for other users to make their own crossover articles, like ones for Kirby, Animal Crossing, or even smaller ones like the Light Gun Series or Ice Climber. We may find ourselves in a position where we can retire those fighter list articles altogether.

I know we have other Smash Bros. list articles for things like bosses, Assist Trophies, Smash Run enemies, trophies, spirits, etc. and, at the moment, I do not intend on including them in my proposal. I do not want to make an overly complicated proposal or interfere with whatever Doc has been drafting. However, I do think it would ultimately be ideal for crossover articles like this to also be where readers are directed if they search up "Deku Nut" or "Ghirahim." I do not think Doc has critically considered just how large the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate article (or even Super Smash Bros. Brawl) would become if we sought to cover all of its content in earnest, or whether it is really necessary with Smash Wiki next door.

How does that all sound? - Nintendo101 (talk) 00:23, September 22, 2024 (EDT)

That all sounds great! Mushzoom (talk) 23:19, September 25, 2024 (EDT)

TTYDNS Tattle Log

That is how they are stored and displayed in-game, and it actually does look better that way on the pages for the Tattle Log and the game's gallery (ie, what those images should be illustrating anyway). Ideally, the bestiary boxes will use assembled sprites like they do for other games, or at least screenshots - especially given the resulting crop is also smaller than the TTYD-original image. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:09, October 3, 2024 (EDT)

Doc, I am not the only person who thought this display looked poor, and given no proposal was raised that mandates we must retain the empty space around an uploaded asset, something that would be a deviation from the majority of assets uploaded to the wiki and something not reflected in the other the images used for other statistic templates, I honestly do not old any qualms on having done narrowed the content of the Goomba file to just the Goomba.

I know you have a reverence for how assets are spatially stored in the games they come from. I think most people on the wiki do, including myself. But whether that extends to the empty space around them is another thing. - Nintendo101 (talk) 22:42, October 3, 2024 (EDT)

The main reason I kept the empty space was because I was hoping that maybe, even just for the bestiary, we could layer the sprites to show the blue background like how the Tattle Log entries appear in-game. Keeping the empty space centers them properly for that. I don't have a strong opinion on keeping data-res, but I'm leaning against it since not every game can be easily ripped or have specific data parameters to follow. It'd also be very hard to enforce. Scrooge200 (talk) 23:34, October 3, 2024 (EDT)

The Spriters Resource

Generally speaking, I'd consider it more helpful to link to the exact sheet or model it is sourced from rather than just the main page. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:20, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

Sorry about that. I feel most comfortable doing it this way.

It is a balance between directing users to a helpful resource and crediting the person who uploaded the sprite or model, versus elevating an instance of a specific sprite or model being uploaded that an IP-holder may take issue with in the future for reasons I am not positioned to speculate about. It is for similar reasons I do not link to literature hosted on the Internet Archives.

I trust those more familiar with these sites would know where to go. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:28, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

Boss table

Honestly it makes the most sense to put the shared information in its own section above rather than repeat it multiple times. And if I were documenting boss battles, I'd have to have but all 11 Bowser Jr. encounters separately since they all have different properties. XD But anyways, as for complete listings, nowhere else on the wiki as far as I am aware actually lists every level each appears in, and it's handy to have that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:20, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

I can see the appeal. In my prior iterations of the enemy table for Super Mario Galaxy, I listed each level that each enemy appeared in. However, discourse with other users and my evolved way of thinking made it clear that they way these lists vertically stretch the tables looks unattractive, and detracts from an otherwise appealing display and the information imparted. I tentatively leave individual levels listed for the bosses in the 3D games because they usually only occur in a handful of them. However, for all of the 2D ones, I have taken to only listing the first and last levels. But maybe I'm thinking about this too rigidly.

Could this level information not be included in the main Bowser Jr. article? I agree it is good and interesting information to impart. - Nintendo101 (talk) 22:31, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

One more thing - for shared information, I recommend integrating it above the table as normal paragraphs, like I did in the boss section for Super Mario Odyssey. Not all text needs to be directly inside the table. If it is just clarified in the body text that there are tower bosses and castle bosses, and that there are mechanical differences between them, readers will understand the division in the table itself. Does that sound agreeable? - Nintendo101 (talk) 22:38, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

I suppose, but given Bowser Jr.'s situation, it made sense to list it separately from those cells yet still in the table section. And IDK, I'd save the Bowser Jr. page for listing more in-depth descriptions of each fight's arena and other properties, akin to what the Boom Boom and Reznor pages do. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:59, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

Re:Shark

Heya. Belated congrats on being a patroller, BTW.

I get it, but there are several reasons I'd want to tone it down. Yes, the wiki took Dark Horse to task (when others hardly would, but I digress). But as you can gather with Nipper Dandelion and Ghost (which was my bad), Dark Horse was not the only offender. It's, for better or worse, a symptom of the interconnected world we live in now. Good fans have a collective responsibility, yes. However, what do we do when it's not just a one-off? Mario Portal has given us the translations that we should have had in the book to begin with, and while we got many of the corrections difficult to get in print, some of that material has been corroborated. In the shark's case, they correctly identified that the Nintendo Power quote was at the beginning of a sentence, so it's uncapitalized like "ant" (something that the book did not pick up on, last I checked). These examples are, in a roundabout way, technically right from the original source, and they're also not the only time subjects with unique names in one language have had generic ones in another. As such, I don't think they need calling-out like getting outright fan-names in there. (Also remember that the original Super Mario Land localization was unusually direct, so I personally found the Super Mario Land 2 section in line with that to be relatively inoffensive, all things considered, but that's neither here nor there.) There's also a human element to this as well. When this happened, most of the ire was directed at one person. A few years later, that person tried to correct the record and explain that he only worked on pages 238-255 - and then I, party-pooper that I am, um-ackchyually'd that some of the release dates in those pages were affected (something that I've come to realize is what companies like Nintendo do because absolutely no one catalogued retro release dates seriously, and that info might very well have been supplied by them directly). I don't know if I believe that person or not when he only took credit for the-then underexamined part of the book, but I don't believe he meant damage, and I believe the ire may have been misdirected in retrospect. He became bitter about his involvement in the book's production. He's moved on, what's done is done, and I don't want us to reopen old wounds if we can help it. That will happen if we bring it up outside of where the information has been agreed to be relegated to. Imagine readers just minding their own business, having a merry time just looking up info on an old game, and then they find this right in the middle of the screen, where it's very hard to miss. It kind of makes us sound a little bit like we all still have a chip on our shoulder, don't you think? I think our strife with them is over. We can only maintain vigilance in case it ever happens again. There are other black ponies out there, and it's not always even a publisher like Dark Horse. I'm keenly aware. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:33, October 22, 2024 (EDT)

Hi again, and thank you for the congratulations.

For context, while I do not know if this is how it was read by others, I felt what I wrote was neutral and uncharged. I did not identify any translators involved with the Dark Horse books, just that the text at large has known incongruencies with general Mario media that derived from the adoption of names from Super Mario Wiki, especially for Super Mario Land 2. This is the only thing I sought to do in my write-up.

My personal view is that the fault lies with Nintendo of America and Dark Horse for not providing the book's editors and translators with names. They absolutely had the ability to do that if they wanted to. Editors and translators for works like these have a difficult and often underappreciated job, and I suspect they work under strict deadlines. They should not be subject to any ire. I also do not think there is anything wrong with these folks, or even Nintendo Treehouse themselves, consulting the site for names they may not have. I actually think it is passively a little complimentary that our site is viewed as such a reliable resource.

However, I think mentioning the encyclopedia, Super Mario Wiki, and the Mario Portal is part of understanding this shark enemy's unique localization history in North America, and I do not think that is trivial or should be omitted. Perhaps there is a way for it be to rewritten in a way that is even more neutral? Let me know what you think.

(As an aside, I personally would not put Super Mario Land in the same boat as Super Mario Land 2, because that game had a complete bestiary in its instruction booklet and 3DS Virtual Console release. Unlike nearly every other mainline game, Super Mario Land 2 has never had a full proper localization in English, or at least not one that has remained accessible. That is more important than the fact that some enemies in SML and SML2 have incidentally come around to having English names that are romanizations of their Japanese ones. For the SML enemies, this was unequivocally deliberate. I do not think that is tenable for most of the SML2 ones.) - Nintendo101 (talk) 21:13, October 22, 2024 (EDT)

"I did not identify any translators involved with the Dark Horse books," I know you didn't, but the link does, and it had real-world effects. That's why I think it's a better idea to limit the spread, plus the English citations have already been banned per proposal outside of {{encyclopedia}} articles. I do think once and only once applies here - there's no need to repeat information that was kept in one space for a long time. But if you wanted to rewrite it, there was a question if the word "controversy" was too strong, and it has since been omitted from the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia article. That's a start. I'm curious, though: why, of all things, shark? Think about it. It's not a fan-name, nor was it outdated at the time of release. If there was no Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia, what affect would there be on that particular article? Zero. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:28, October 22, 2024 (EDT)

The Nintendo Life citation was simply because we have policies about citing information and claims not directly in the games, which this is. Perhaps it was commented on elsewhere in a way that does not reference the translator specifically.

"Shark" was simply because that was the article I chose to work on after making revisions to the Sushi article. I would make a similar write-up for most of the enemies from Super Mario Land 2 (i.e. ant, collector, sewer rat, etc.) because they similarly have complex localization histories that have lead to the adoption of non-discrete names. Regardless of our policies, it does not seem "shark" is employed in the cited material with discrete intent, something I have come to recognize from the years I have spent on a different site, and consequently is not exercised as a "true" name in the same vein as "Piranha Plant" or "Koopa." This is unusual for an enemy in a mainline Super Mario game and is just inherently something I know I would want to know about as a visitor to the enemy's article. If there was no encyclopedia or Mario Portal, I would still not recognize this as a discrete "true" name and it would still be something I would want to touch upon in its article. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:03, October 22, 2024 (EDT)

Regarding Portal - part of this is because there just doesn't seem to be any prospect of reusing most Land 2 elements anytime soon, so there's not much to gain from updating terms if they know it originated from them to begin with. Take Bomber Bill and Mini Goomba - Bull's-Eye Bomber Bill and Cat Bomber Bill were updated (having just been in Super Mario Maker 2), but Pile-driver Micro-Goomba remains as opposed to Pile-driver Mini Goomba, which probably means there's nothing in the pipeline for it. They also probably want to update only what was deemed to be the essential corrections so as not to be unrecognizable. The fact that corrections were made at all is a sign that they were paying attention. As for localization history... Just a thought: If "Mario Portal" is an article, maybe there can be a section on where the English version borrows from and improves upon Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia? Though since much of it is already noted, not too sure. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:05, October 23, 2024 (EDT)

You and I can reasonably deduce that is why Mario Portal utilizes these types of names. I do not think that is immediately apparent to someone visiting the site who may want to understand that better, and I do not think they should have to dig through talk pages to learn why. It is not a value judgement on Mario Portal or the encyclopedia - it is the desire of a reader to understand why "x" is the way it is.

But anyways, while I do still think localization history is the type of information worth including in the articles for subjects like enemies, bosses, etc., I think I understand what you were getting at and revised it accordingly. How does it look? With new eyes, I think the previous version did come off as more judgmental than was intended.

I don’t think that’s a bad idea for the eventual Mario Portal article. - Nintendo101 (talk) 00:39, October 23, 2024 (EDT)

It fits substantially better than before, thanks for taking in the feedback. Just some nitpicks from a nitpicker: 1) The years are already in the references for those who'd like to, well, refer to them. The main text already states "subsequently", so readers would make the inference that it happened some time later. "Mario Portal circa 2022" could give the wrong impression that it changed at a later date (which happened with No.48 and Bunbun so far). I'd personally keep the years within the references. Same with the game's release year, which is apparent in the adjacent infobox. We can just say, "Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins when it originally released," 2) Still, reference #3... As I've said, proposals have banned citing the English Encyclopedia. I've only had it unbanned for the context of {{encyclopedia}} as I saw the use in what remained, so strictly speaking, it might require a new proposal altogether to relax it some more. I would just, in the meantime, condense it to "the enemy's name in the English Mario Portal" until that bit is sorted out. If the Mario Portal article is made first, as long as the section is in list format like in the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia article, it shouldn't require citations, so I don't think detailing the relation between Encyclopedia and Portal in that space would need a proposal. And 3) About Nipper Dandelion... Dark Horse was a very unique situation and a game-changer, but Nipper Dandelion was another discussion. The reason that's in trivia, I surmise, is because while it's fishy, we don't know the details for sure and it's harder to obtain them. It could've been a different site, or it could've been coincidental. A lot of us don't want to get to a point where we tilt at windmills, y'know? LinkTheLefty (talk) 04:50, October 23, 2024 (EDT)

Proposal

I didn't mean to upset you. I'm okay with opposition, since proposals are about whether one supports or opposes an idea. However, I could tell you were particularly upset, so I wanted to apologize, as upsetting was not my intention at all. I've begun to see the points others have made, so I canceled and archived the proposal. Super Mario RPG (talk) 16:28, October 23, 2024 (EDT)

I was not personally offended or anything like that, though I appreciate your change in perspective. I understand wanting to foster an inclusive and accepting community, but forbidding all criticism is not the best way to do that, in my view.

You may appreciate knowing that the enemy tables I developed for the mainline games with eviemaybe, Sparks, Mario, and Ray Trace was partially inspired by the ones on WiKirby's article for Kirby Super Star. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:35, October 23, 2024 (EDT)

I do really like the articles and work that you do, and it's cool to know you had been inspired by WiKirby. I just like experimenting with new and interesting ideas, like from our affiliates, and it's something I think that fosters unity. Super Mario RPG (talk) 16:38, October 23, 2024 (EDT)

I feel the same way! - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:40, October 23, 2024 (EDT)

Clampy

While the clam may have never been called that in-game, it was called that in the strategy guide and as such, Mario Portal is a retroactive name. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 11:02, October 24, 2024 (EDT)

The name "Clampy" did not come from Mario Portal - it came from New Super Mario Bros. Wii in 2009, which was published only two years after the enemy's debut in Super Mario Galaxy. If you look at the page's history, you will see that this enemy has accurately been called "Clampy" before Mario Portal was ever a thing.

Almost none of the enemies introduced in Super Mario Galaxy (including Flipbug, Rocto, etc.) had known English names when the game was published in 2007 and the author of the Prima game guide simply used generic descriptors for the ones he did not have the names for. Clampy just happens to be one of the enemies in that boat. Many enemies are in a similar situation in the franchise's history, and it is not invalid to apply those names in retrospect when they are the only names available. - Nintendo101 (talk) 11:21, October 24, 2024 (EDT)

Notice

You have been reverted the deletion of redirects. I added a deletion as it is unnecessary since there is no address linked to this gallery. This is an unnecessary redirect after merging. Windy (talk) 00:23, October 25, 2024 (EDT)

I only did that for Princess Daisy because those subdivided galleries were on the wiki for almost a near, and I would not be surprised if other websites and people off of the site have linked to them at this point, especially with how important Daisy is to some fans. In maintaining those redirects, those links would still work for them. - Nintendo101 (talk) 00:25, October 25, 2024 (EDT)

After checked by What links here, it said "No pages link to (subdivided gallery)". For this reason, I have submitted a deletion request. "History of Princess Daisy" article was also deleted as it was merged into the main page. If you are not going to delete the redirects, please restore "History of Princess Daisy" and redirect it. Windy (talk) 00:34, October 25, 2024 (EDT)