Talk:Famicom Grand Prix (series)

Famicom Grand Prix games part of a larger F-1 Race series?:

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Wouldn't it be more accurate to call these two games a sort of "sub-series" of the larger F-1 Race series (all 4 games) like we've done with the NSMB series (all NSMB games) and the Super Mario series (all platformer games, including the NSMB games)? Three of these games are called "F-1 Race" (F-1 Race (FC), Famciom Grand Prix: F-1 Race and F-1 Race (GB)), plus Famicom Grand Prix: F-1 Race and F-1 Race (GB, japanese version) shares the same logo on:

• the covers of the boxes;
• the stickers on the disc/cartridge;
• the manuals;
• the title screens of both games.

The only difference being the addition of a small star between the "F" and the "1" and the color of the logo originally chrome turned gold. Another commonality between these games is the inclusion of Nintendo character references with the exception of F-1 Race (FC). Finally, all of them are Formula 1 car racing games except Famicom Grand Prix II: 3D Hot Rally which, as the name suggests, is more of a rally type game. --Conradd (talk) 13:18, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

The problem is 3D Hot Rally isn't Formula One-based, though. That could be considered a separate series that intersects, but since the Famicom F-1 Race has nothing to do with Mario at all and the Game Boy one merely has cameos, I don't really think that would be within our coverage any further than it currently is. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:57, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

Is 3D Hot Rally really a Mario game or is it more that it is part of a larger series (the F-1 series) and Mario & Luigi are just cameos? Mario is barely present in the first Famicom Grand Prix, he is just used on the cover and the promotional illustrations (and maybe that one sprite who could look like him). To me it's more of a SSX on Tour and NBA Street V3 type situation, they're not Mario games, but Mario is used as a promotional tool to sell more copies. These games are more like crossovers if you want. I think a simple mention that this is a bigger series should suffice without having to mention the other games in the series that have no connection to Mario. --Conradd (talk) 14:30, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

As for 3D Hot Rally not being a F-1 Race game because it is not a Formula One racing game. I don't find it shocking to call it that despite that. (as said earlier, if FGP1 is part of the F-1 Race series due to its links to the other games and Hot Rally is also named FGP2, a sequel to the first FGP game, then it must be a F-1 Race game despite being a rally game). It's like Metroid Dread and the futures entries of the Metroid franchise, Sakamoto said that Metroid Dread marks the end of the Metroid saga and the start of something new, would you call any new Metroid games not Metroid games because there no Metroid anymore? Also, I'm sure we can find game series with entries that have nothing in common with the rest of there series (in terms of gameplay or otherwise) despite being from the same series. Who knows, maybe 3D Hot Rally is just a spin-off of the F-1 Race franchise and the other games are the main ones? haha --Conradd (talk) 15:14, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

Mario and Luigi appear in multiple animations in 3D Hot Rally (specifically repair, win, and loss). It's consistently them driving for all playable vehicles. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:37, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

I'm not arguing with that, i know they're in the game. What i'm saying is they're cameos in a game that's not a Mario game but a game that happend to be the third entry of a series called F-1 Race. --Conradd (talk) 15:46, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

OK, maybe the term crossover is perhaps more appropriate for the second FGP game rather than the term cameos, but you get what I mean, right? Maybe a comparison between FGP2 and Bun Bun Excitebike will be fairer then? But even so, I wouldn't really call Bun Bun a Mario game, more of a spin-off from the Excitebite series. Maybe FGP2 is just that, a spin-off of the F-1 Race franchise with Mario characters, perhaps explaining why it's so different from the rest of its series? --Conradd (talk) 16:11, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

I think the main point I am trying to make is that in both FGP games, you explicitly play as Mario in a vehicle, while in the ones simply called "F1 Race," you don't. Simple as. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:25, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

Ok i've rewatched gameplay from FGP1, i guess you're right we are playing with Mario. I forgot about the little Mario in the menus, sorry about that. Do we at least agree that: F-1 Race (FC), Famicom Grand Prix: F-1 Race, Famicom Grand Prix II: 3D Hot Rally and F-1 Race (GB) are all part of the F-1 Race series with perhaps both Famicom Grand Prix games as a side-series? If so, should a note be added to the article, saying so? Do you agree that those games (FGP1 & 2) are more like crossovers between the F-1 Race franchise and the Mario franchise rather than strictly Mario games, so i can moves them in Crossover row in the Super Mario games template? --Conradd (talk) 17:56, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

I wouldn't put FGPII as part of the F1 Race series, myself, and I wouldn't call them crossovers. I'd just say they're pre-Kart racing games with Mario in them. F1 Race itself was so barebones that adding Mario for the successor seems less like a crossover and more like a specification. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 08:18, July 15, 2023 (EDT)

To be honest, IF the Famicom Grand Prix games ARE "part of a larger F-1 Race series", then what about Mach Rider? F Zero? Mach Rider is considered a predecessor to the Famicom Grand Prix games, just like F-1 Race, so that would need to be included, too. And F-Zero is considered a successor to the Famicom Grand Prix games, like the Mario Kart games. Now, the successors are a bit of a problem, since the Mario Kart games and the Famicom Grand Prix games are not considered part of the same series, but if the Famicom Grand Prix games AND its predeseccors are condsidered part of the same series, then we'd have to include the successors. Now, Mario Kart isn't a problem, we already cover those. But F-Zero is. F-Zero COULD be considered both a successor to the F-1 series, AND the Famicom Grand Prix games, meaning F-Zero would be considered part of the series, but F-Zero has a series all of its own. "Ok", you may think, "We'll just pull a Super Mario Bros. with this like the New Super Mario Bros. games." BUT! Captain Falcon came from the F-Zero games, so if we include the F-Zero games, then Captain Falcon IS a Mario character. BUT there's already a F-Zero wiki, so that would have to be merged with this one. BUT Captain Falcon is thought of, at least in this wiki, as NOT a Mario character. Therefore, the Famicom Grand Prix games are NOT part of the F-1 Race series. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:12, January 26, 2024 (CST)

The Famicom Grand Prix series are Super Mario games featuring Formula One race cars. That's what sets them apart from the general F-1 Race titles. Super Mario RPG (talk) 13:16, January 26, 2024 (EST)

... Seriously? THAT'S ALL YOU TOOK FROM THAT!? SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:23, January 26, 2024 (CST)

As the maker of this page, I would consider F-Zero as a loose successor to the various racing games mentioned via building off prior experience in development, but not a spinoff or sequel. It's no more part of the Mario extended franchise than the Punch Out!! or The Legend of Zelda series are. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:20, January 26, 2024 (EST)