Editing Talk:Goomboss

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== Move the information about the "Chesnut King" currently on the [[List of implied characters]] to this page ==
== Move the information about the "Chesnut King" currently on the [[List of implied characters]] to this page ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{SettledTPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|no consensus|11-12}}
{{ProposalOutcome|no consensus|11-12}}
A while back, [[Talk:List of implied characters#Merge some character pages into this list|there was a proposal]] to move various article about unseen characters to the previously-mentioned page and I argued the Chestnut King (mentioned in the "[[Super Luigi]]" books in [[Paper Mario TTYD]]) page should be merged here because X, Y, and Z. The vote didn't go my way but I didn't think the opposition's arguments were very compelling, and I still think this the proper place for the information. I'll adress them all
A while back, [[Talk:List of implied characters#Merge some character pages into this list|there was a proposal]] to move various article about unseen characters to the previously-mentioned page and I argued the Chestnut King (mentioned in the "[[Super Luigi]]" books in [[Paper Mario TTYD]]) page should be merged here because X, Y, and Z. The vote didn't go my way but I didn't think the opposition's arguments were very compelling, and I still think this the proper place for the information. I'll adress them all


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== Have the Chesnut King on the [[List of implied characters]] redirect to this page ==
== Have the Chesnut King on the [[List of implied characters]] redirect to this page ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|23-2|merge Chestnut King to Goomboss}}
Three years ago there was a proposal by Glowsquid to move this — here is the main compelling argument: '''The Chestnut King is identical to the Goomba King’s name in Paper Mario in every version of the game except English''': The original Japanese script and every other official translations of the game call this character "Goomba King". The English localization is alone in this. In fact [https://twitter.com/SMWikiOfficial/status/1032616204740059136 the English localization of TTYD mangles or remove several references made to the original Paper Mario. This is another mistake by the English localization team.] As a wiki we strive for a relatively neutral point of view, and allowing the mistake of one language to override the intent of the game in all other languages is frankly unbecoming of the Super Mario Wiki. The Chestnut King should redirect to this page and all the content should get its own game section. It’s a really cool bit of trivia that I just learned, and would’ve learned long before if this article was handled properly. It’s clear that the original intent was a joke about how the Paper Mario Prologue Boss is Luigi’s final boss in the Waffle Kingdom. There is no contradiction in canon since Luigi never met the Goomba King in Paper Mario. --{{User:Plumber/sig}} 16:26, April 28, 2022 (EDT)
Three years ago there was a proposal by Glowsquid to move this — here is the main compelling argument: '''The Chestnut King is identical to the Goomba King’s name in Paper Mario in every version of the game except English''': The original Japanese script and every other official translations of the game call this character "Goomba King". The English localization is alone in this. In fact [https://twitter.com/SMWikiOfficial/status/1032616204740059136 the English localization of TTYD mangles or remove several references made to the original Paper Mario. This is another mistake by the English localization team.] As a wiki we strive for a relatively neutral point of view, and allowing the mistake of one language to override the intent of the game in all other languages is frankly unbecoming of the Super Mario Wiki. The Chestnut King should redirect to this page and all the content should get its own game section. It’s a really cool bit of trivia that I just learned, and would’ve learned long before if this article was handled properly. It’s clear that the original intent was a joke about how the Paper Mario Prologue Boss is Luigi’s final boss in the Waffle Kingdom. There is no contradiction in canon since Luigi never met the Goomba King in Paper Mario. --{{User:Plumber/sig}} 16:26, April 28, 2022 (EDT)


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#{{user|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all.
#{{user|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per Bean.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per Bean.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all. I've wanted to see this happen for quite some time now.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all. It's not like no one could ever mention for example Link while referring to both one of his incarnations and all of them at the same time.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Thinking about it, it made a lot of sense to mention the Goomba King both as a joke final boss - that the player of the first game would immediately recognize as such - and as a food reference. I already agreed because of the Japanese name and the other localizations, now I agree even more, though we can use the wording of Swallow to err in the side of caution.


====Keep status quo ====
====Keep status quo ====
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As an example, nomenclature (in particular, character/creature names or lore-specific terms) can erroneously get more than one translation applied to them. While working on TLOU2, we had a localization bug where the infected known as Shamblers had two different translations in Latin American Spanish, Tambaleantes (tumblers), and Monstruos (monsters) that got used in different lines for Ellie. I pitched that we stick with Tambaleantes for all lines that refer to the Shambler, as it’s a much more unique name than “Monstruo” and it’s consistent with a supermajority of the other strings with the infected’s name. The loc team in Europe agreed, and we ended up fixing that translation. But the main reason I caught this bug was because I had been testing that same level for several months in preparation for a press demo. Like I said, time and context make a huge difference. {{User:Beanbean/sig}} 23:12, April 28, 2022 (EDT)
As an example, nomenclature (in particular, character/creature names or lore-specific terms) can erroneously get more than one translation applied to them. While working on TLOU2, we had a localization bug where the infected known as Shamblers had two different translations in Latin American Spanish, Tambaleantes (tumblers), and Monstruos (monsters) that got used in different lines for Ellie. I pitched that we stick with Tambaleantes for all lines that refer to the Shambler, as it’s a much more unique name than “Monstruo” and it’s consistent with a supermajority of the other strings with the infected’s name. The loc team in Europe agreed, and we ended up fixing that translation. But the main reason I caught this bug was because I had been testing that same level for several months in preparation for a press demo. Like I said, time and context make a huge difference. {{User:Beanbean/sig}} 23:12, April 28, 2022 (EDT)
:[[File:Mario ExciteBike.png]] Good post! Well who knew that working with mushroom monsters would help us sort through THIS mushroom monster? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 23:32, April 28, 2022 (EDT)
:[[File:Mario ExciteBike.png]] Good post! Well who knew that working with mushroom monsters would help us sort through THIS mushroom monster? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 23:32, April 28, 2022 (EDT)
== The TTYD remake...🫠 ==
Looks like it kept this translation quirk thing. I think we'll have to undo the Chestnut King-related changes. Put it back in [[List of implied characters]].  {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:07, May 23, 2024 (EDT)
:Nah, no reason to do that. Lang-of-Orig and every single other translation kept theirs, too. (Now just wait until the PM64 remake where they call the boss the Chestnut King instead lol) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:09, May 23, 2024 (EDT)
:I'd think the remake still says "Chestnut King" to keep the food theme naming with Eclair and Crepe. Regardless, I find it implausible that the developers of TTYD, with multiple explicit references to PM64, would suddenly feature a Kuri King who is somehow ''not'' PM64's Kuri King? It's like claiming that European elks don't exist in North America just because you can only find "moose" there. [[User:Soulsborne|Soulsborne]] ([[User talk:Soulsborne|talk]]) 20:44, June 16, 2024 (EDT)
::While I did kinda just leave it alone when I brought this up with the Pale Piranha, I personally get the sense that, with everything that was changed/fixed in the original, that some of these parts had to have been intentionally left alone. The English version could've changed both the Goomboss and Pale Piranha things to match them up with other versions of the game, but they didn't and they clearly had to have done it with the knowledge that something was mistranslated/misinterpreted in the original. But with everything else also remaining the same, I feel there's not truly enough to revert anything back. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
:::I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, character names have been left intact in the English version. Regardless, I also feel that we should keep the Chestnut King info here because other languages still call him the Goomba King. Moreover, so does the Dutch translation, which is ''100% new'' since the GCN original ''never was in Dutch in the first place'', yet still kept some enemy names the same as English unless it's something like [[Green Magikoopa|Green Kamek]], [[Spiky Parabuzzy|Spiky Para-Beetle]] or [[Big Bandit|Bandit-boss]] (They also called the Pale Piranhas simply "Piranha Plant"). {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:38, June 17, 2024 (EDT)

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