Editing Talk:Kodeka Kakibō

==Rename to Big Goombrat==
{{talk}}
I thought Policy allows for this name now, how come it was changed back? --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 22:17, February 9, 2024 (EST)
:Consider: Kodeka Kuribo isn't Big Goomba, it is ''Hefty'' Goomba. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:12, February 9, 2024 (EST)
::"BigKakibo" is the internal name for it in Mario Wonder, but if that is the same conventions used for "Hefty Goombas" internal name then lets call it "Hefty Goombrat"--[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 09:34, February 10, 2024 (EST)
:::There has been some confusion in the page's move history on where to move it to. For the time being and per [[MarioWiki:Naming#Derived_names]] (where we know the source enemy's English name, Hefty Goomba, we know this enemy's Japanese name, and the qualities of this enemy are similar to Hefty Goomba's qualities), I've moved it to Hefty Goombrat. This edit in MarioWiki:Naming[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Naming&diff=4066252&oldid=4036865], I believe, is the change in policy RHG cited[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Hefty_Goombrat&diff=4113168&oldid=4113083] when moving the page. {{User:Mario/sig}} 12:11, February 10, 2024 (EST)
::::That section is non-sense and seems to have been stealth-edited into the policy. Why use a fanmade name when there's an official name for this thing?! {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:24, February 10, 2024 (EST)
:::::I don't believe it's a "fan-made name", we're piecing it from official sources and relying on relatively predictable name. Note our policy also says that English names take precedence over the Japanese ones. We decided to change the policy over issues naming the Wonder-variants of the enemies: it's all over the place with English and Japanese names despite a very predictable naming scheme. I don't see how it's beneficial to be overly cautious and rely on using "Deka Hoppin" or "Wonder Hoppin" rather than "Big Hoppycat" or "Wonder Hoppycat". {{User:Mario/sig}} 12:41, February 10, 2024 (EST)
::::::"Piecing [names] from official sources and relying on relatively predictable name" is make-believe game localizer stuff and the very definition of fan-made. The policy even straight up dictates using the "conjecture" template in such cases. Never mind that I'm already iffy on the policy especially since it was apparently only discussed among sysops (a red flag from me there, this stuff should be collaborative), but what makes this case even more disagreeable is that instead of resorting to a plain, "relatively predictable" descriptor to refer to a big variation of an enemy, the wiki uses "hefty", which is flowery and goes against the conjectural naming policy. Using it isn't fine just because it's derived from the Japanese name and reflects [[Hefty Goomba]]'s name--at the end of the day, you're prioritizing a conjectural name over something official and that is not even remotely what this site is about. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:50, February 10, 2024 (EST)
:::::::In general, I agree with the policy change, but I think going with Hefty (which requires jumping through a few hoops) over Big (which was actually used by Nintendo in internal data) may have been a step too far here. Changing Kakibo to Goombrat is reasonable since it's just that subject's name, but I'm cautious about going much further than that. With our current information, Big Goombrat is the ideal name for this, in my opinion (I'm still not sure why it was moved away multiple times). --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:58, February 10, 2024 (EST)
::::::::It was moved because "Kodeka Kakibō" is official while "Big Goombrat" is not, and I wasn't aware of that policy when I performed the move. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:02, February 10, 2024 (EST)
:::::::::Waluigi Time: Hefty Goomba's internal name is also "Big Goomba". {{User:Mario/sig}} 14:55, February 10, 2024 (EST)
::::::::::I'll repeat what I've said [[Talk:Mame-san#Name source|here]]: this is analogous to Big Goomba in ''Super Mario Maker 2'' (and almost certainly ''Super Mario Run'') and as such there is no obvious name. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:51, February 11, 2024 (EST)

From what I understand, the newer policy's ''intent'' is to make judgement calls in cases where the only valid sources are incomplete file names or vague descriptions (like the infamous "vehicle with surfboard" being too clunky for an article name), meaning this is an abuse of it (and regardless of whether this ''does'' follow the intent or not, it's a good illustration of how bad an idea it is). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:12, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
: Well then, let's switch it back to the Japanese name instead of making up an English name. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:12, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
::I'm also going to add, for the record, that I don't think "[[Special:Diff/4155052|Wonder Hoppycat]]" was a good move either, based on conclusions so far raised [[User talk:Jdtendo#Re:Hoppin≠Hoppycat|here]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:56, March 15, 2024 (EDT)

Pardon me for cutting in, but I wonder why the enemy is named "Hefty Goombrat" instead of "Big Goombrat"? It's just a bigger version of a Goombrat. Maybe there's a reason why it's named that that I'm unaware of? {{User:Sparks/sig}} 11:02, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
:I think it was because a Japanese ''Super Mario Bros. Wonder'' source uses the same term for these enemies used for Hefty Goomba. Why this and not the giant Swirlypod, I don't follow. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:07, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
::Oh. It seems inconsistent, but if that's what the source says, then I understand now. {{User:Sparks/sig}} 11:09, March 15, 2024 (EDT)