User:LinkTheLefty/Projects: Difference between revisions

Mini Goomba
	; Artwork from Super Mario Odyssey
First appearance	Super Mario Bros. 3 (1988)
Latest appearance	Nintendo World Championships: NES Edition (2024)
Variant of	Goomba
Variants
	Gold Mini Goomba; Pile Driver Micro-Goomba
Relatives
	Paragoomba; Small Goomba
Comparable
	Burrbo; Goombo
Notable members
	Triplets

Big Goomba
	; Artwork from Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS
First appearance	Super Mario 64 (1996)
Latest appearance	Super Mario Bros. Wonder (2023)
Variant of	Goomba
Variants
	Big Paragoomba; Big Tail Goomba; Hefty Goomba; Kodeka Kakibō
Relatives
	Big Galoomba; Mega Goomba

Mega Goomba
	; Artwork from Mario Party: Star Rush
First appearance	Super Mario Bros. 3 (1988)
Latest appearance	Nintendo World Championships: NES Edition (2024)
Variant of	Goomba
Variants
	Giant Land Para-Goomba
Relatives
	Big Goomba
Comparable
	Choomba; Chuboomba; Paper Macho Goomba
Notable members
	Captain Goomba (Mario Party 8); Giant Goomba

Revision as of 10:33, October 21, 2024

Welcome to LinkTheLefty's Projects page of wiki-related matters.

Size Experiments: Plan

Currently, the wiki generally groups basic enemy resizes together. One of these, Giant/Big Shy Guy, is even enforced via proposal, having been merged back with Mega Guy in 2020. This is in part due to different creative translations over the years leading to some misconceptions, such as Piranhacus Giganticus being a pipe-dwelling Big Piranha Plant. Not counting the Yoshi's Island series (in which big stage bosses tend to gain unique features from the base enemy), however, it seems that two sets of names are still in semiregular use. Bigger enemies are usually referred to as "Big" (でか, Deka, Big) in platformers and "Mega" (巨大, Kyodai, Giant) in others, and while smaller enemies are rarer, the little Goombas in particular have gone by "Mini" (マメ, Mame, Bean) and "Small" (ちび, Chibi, Small). There is very little to distinguish them, but in several of these appearances, the latter set of enemies are resized due to magic spells. Additionally, Mario Portal, which has garnered a reputation of using what is perceived to be the "current" official names as of 2022, lists "Mega" enemies in the Super Mario Bros. 3 page and has "Small Goomba" in the Super Mario 64 page, suggesting that they are separate. Big/Mega and Mini/Small of the same base enemy have never appeared together after all this time. There was a perfect opportunity to do that with Mega Goomba (NSMB, ボス, Boss) and Hefty Goomba (こでか, Kodeka, Mini-Big), but those are said to be their own things larger and smaller than a Big Goomba, respectively. In short, there's no consistent explanation on how Big differs from Mega, and the same goes for Mini Goomba and Small Goomba, but the continued use of both names casts doubt.

Pros of the status quo:

Arguably better-organized, as many pages have grown to depend on it.
Since size is such a self-explanatory attribute, covering unnamed appearances on one article is a no-brainer.
This is inconsistent with itself; see internal names in Super Mario Galaxy 2.

Cons of the status quo:

The names are still seemingly used concurrently, which means re-piping to the recent name may continue indefinitely, causing needless busywork.
There is still some speculation involved even if the names are self-explanatory, such as Super Mario Maker.
There is minor consistency in that one set of names is preferred within separate series of games.

It may be high time for re-evaluation.

What's in a Name?

The names for resizes have evolved over time in multiple languages. We'll stick to Japanese and English, though other languages have had similar changes. Due to their relative rarity, few small enemies are mentioned except for the Goombas.

Platformers

Super Mario Bros. 3 - Big enemies are introduced, mostly for use in World 4's theme. In English, they go by unique names such as "Grand Goomba" or "Boss Bass", but in Japanese, they're all Kyodai (巨大). This got retranslated to "Mega" later on ever since Mega Mario was properly introduced. These all act identically to their regular-sized counterparts. Mini Goombas are also introduced here, then known as Micro or Mame (マメ), depicted as pest-like. The Sledge Bros. also appear, which would go on to be the occasional stand-in for big Hammer Bros, but they do not follow the "big" naming convention and are sometimes about the same size.
Super Mario World - Big Boos are introduced. In Japanese, they are known as "Atomic Telesa" here, but the previous Kyodai term is alluded to in the manual. Banzai Bills also appear, but have a transformative enough design that they are not always simply seen as Big Bullet Bills. Mega Moles as well. All of these names are fairly unique in Japanese and English.
Super Mario 64 - Large and small-sized creatures appear. They originally had no English name, but Japanese sources introduce the でか (Big) and ちび (Small) name. Mario Portal, as mentioned, would ultimately reinforce that notion, though they were presumably supposed to be named after Tiny-Huge Island. In addition, Big Boo and Big Bully, but they go by ボス here.
Super Mario Advance - Giant/Big Shy Guy and Giant/Big Ninji are introduced. In Japanese, these are the ones that go by "Big" (ビッグ) like the Yoshi's Island bosses, but again, we'll leave Yoshi's Island off the table since this is mostly about basic rescaling.
New Super Mario Bros. - The names are all over the place, in both Japanese and English. In Japanese, the terms are Kyodai (巨大) and Dai (大), which in English became "Mega" and "Super" inconsistently. Mini Goombas return with new behavior but the SMB3 Japanese name, which would be the basis for almost every subsequent appearance. There's also a giant Wiggler, which is also kyodai ("Dai" Wigglers were planned but unimplemented). Sledge Bro gets a name change in Japanese, now being Mega (メガ). Lastly, there's the boss Mega Goomba character that grows into giant size. A Super Smash Bros. Brawl trophy identifies this as a Goomba larger than the Deka guys, so while "Mega" would be repurposed, it's a different thing here. Note that Mega/Kyodai Unagi mimics Mega/Kyodai Mario's ability to break course elements.
Super Mario Galaxy - The big and small Goombas return, being unnamed in English sources at the time but being Deka and Mame in Japanese, though the internal Japanese names of the big Goomba and Boo indicate that they were meant to be different. Big Amp creatures also appear, with two known Japanese names related to kyodai and big. Giant Gringills, as well, being Dai.
New Super Mario Bros. Wii - Possibly due to the bigger screen size, the sizes have been altered from the handheld game, but in Japanese, they go by SM64's Deka, even Big Boo from then on. This would be the standard going forward in platformers. In English, however, "Super" and "Big" would be used. Heavy Para-Beetles also appear, under the Japanese Mega name. Hefty Goombas are their own category, explicitly being a size between regular and Deka, but use their own name. Deka Goombas now split into two Hefty Goombas when stomped, and those in turn become two regular Goombas (note that this never happens with any appearance of Kyodai Goomba).
Super Mario Galaxy 2 - More big enemies appear under the Japanese Deka name for what's seemingly a tribute to SMB3's world theme, but they still didn't get an English name yet. Japanese internal name indicates most of these were Kyodai, referring to SMB3. Big Boo appears under the name Mega Boo, being the outlier to retain Kyodai in the final name. As these act as a swarm/wall, they are one of the few to have a separate article as of a 2024 proposal. Also notable is that Mini (ミニ) Chomps are renamed to Small/Chibi Chomps, matching the term used for most of the small enemies; despite the name changes, both Small/Chibi Chomps and Big/Deka Gringills are completely identical to the predecessor's Mini Chomps and Giant/Dai Gringills.
Super Mario 3D Land - Big Tail Goombas and Morty Moles appear, based on Deka Goombas and Mega Moles, respectively. Large Spike Balls also appear under the Deka name.
New Super Mario Bros. 2/U - Deka has become finalized as "Big" in English, which is the standard going forward; Dai would be mostly retired despite some sizes being closer between the handheld entries, with the exception of Dai Gorō (or "Mega Grrrol") in the latter.
Yoshi's New Island - big Shy Guys and Lantern Ghosts appear as "Mega" (メガ) Guys and Kantera. The former had Big Shy Guy merged mainly to help cover unnamed big Shy Guys in one article.
Super Mario Maker series - The enemies here can be enlarged with a Super Mushroom, and with the exception of Sledge Bro (and Banzai Bill being wholly separate) and Rocky Wrench gaining a minor hopping mechanic, all the enemies just scale up normally. In side material, certain ones are identified as "Big"/Deka, including the Goombas despite inheriting Hefty characteristics.
Super Mario 3D World/Super Mario Odyssey - Mini Goombas appear. In the latter, SMB3-style ones were planned according to the art book, where they appear to be children. This might have something to do with their redesign. In the former, regular Deka Piranha Plants appear under the name "Mega" here, though Mario Portal uses "Big" as it consistently translates Kyodai to Mega and Deka to Big (it seemingly considers the modern translation of Dai to be "Giant" instead of "Super" as per the SMG instance of Giant Gringill).
Super Mario Bros. Wonder - The big version of Goombrat and Swirlypod are based on Hefty Goomba's Japanese name for some reason, possibly indicating they were meant to have three sizes like Goombas and Smogrins. Otherwise, the now-usual Deka is used for big enemies.

Misc.

Super Mario RPG - Mini Goombas, originally Goombettes, appear as stronger Goombas. A trio is depicted as children. There's also an actual "Big" (ビッグ) Boo in Bowser's Terrorize move, and a giant Mechakoopa in his Bowser Crush / Mechakoopa Stomp move.
Super Smash Bros. series - The Goombas are Deka, translated as "Giant" in Brawl (デカ), but the Thousand-Year Door Blooper is Kyodai, translated as "Big". Ultimate mentions Big/Deka Piranhas as of 2.0.0's guidance, but not Kyodai or Dai ones, suggesting that those were one-off.
Paper Mario - "Big" (ビッグ) Lantern Ghost serves a role as a mini-boss.
- Super Paper Mario - Mega Koopa reuses an idea intended for NSMB Mega Goomba in which it uses a power-up against the player.
- Sticker Star - Big/Deka enemies appear as mini-bosses, in line with the trend of the platformers.
- Paper Jam - Big Tail Goomba and Big Pokey are both Deka enemies.
- Color Splash - This breaks the trend and basically pulls a NSMB DS. The "Big"/Deka Spiny and Lava Bubble appear as mini-bosses, but now Mega/Kyodai Goomba reappears as a SMB3-esque regular enemy in Mondo Woods. Small enemies are encountered in the neighboring Sacred Forest, including "Small"/Chibi Goombas for the first time since SM64. The resized enemies of these areas are suggested to be under a spell by Kamek, though there's also the Buzzy Beetle Tower later on featuring all three sizes of Buzzy Beetle, including Sacred Forest's Small Buzzy Beetle.
- The Origami King - While there is no regular Paper Macho Pokey, ostensibly based on Big/Deka Pokey, is a Kyodai.
Mario Party - ~~The bane of my existence.~~ The real reason for this. Giant/Kyodai Bloopers appear in 6 and 7, but that's not too important since they predate NSMB DS, and Big Dry Bones appear in Island Tour. The problem starts with boss minigames.
- 10 - Five (six counting Sledge Bro) Kyodai enemies appear as bosses, now using "Mega" as the translation: Goomba, Mechakoopa, Blooper, Cheep Chomp (a "Big Cheep Chomp" appeared in Sticker Star), and Monty Mole (which already had Mega Mole). At this point, Big/Deka had become the standard in the platformers.
- Star Rush - Mega/Kyodai Goomba, Monty Mole, Mega Blooper, and Dry Bones appear. Here, they're said to be mega-sized due to Kamek's magic.
- Super - Many of the Cheep Cheep in River Survival are shown being magically-enlarged by Kamek before they leap if he's encountered. Mega Bloopers also appear, and seem to be a naturally-occurring element this time.
- Superstars - The giant Cheep Cheep (presumably an oversight, should've been Mega) reappears from 3.
- Jamboree - Kyodai is back to Mega.
unnamed: Partners in Time (Mrs. Thwomp's minis), Mario Golf: World Tour (giant Goombas and Monty Moles), Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games DS (giant Goomba, though "Big Bullet Bill" seems to be used as a translation of Kyodai instead of Deka)...

In conclusion, the platformers are easier to follow as we see first-hand the older names getting phased out over time, whereas spinoffs, especially recent Mario Party entries, are keeping them alive.

Simpler, please?

Oh fine, here's a basic table of the big three in select titles: Kyodai, Dai, and Deka (usually, but not always, translated as Mega, Super, and Big).

	SMB3	SM64	MP6	NSMB	SMG	NSMBW	SMG2	SM3DL	NSMB2	PMSS	NSMBU	SM3DW	MPIT	SMM	M&LPJ	PMCS	MPSR	SMP	MPS	SMBW	SMPJ
Kyodai	y		y	y			y							y		y	y	y	y		y
Deka		y			y	y	y^I	y	y	y	y	y	y	y	y	y				y
Dai				y	y						y

^I - Internal Japanese names indicate that a kyodai/dekka divide may have been in the cards before settling with deka.
Takeaways:

Platformers started with kyodai, but that term has rarely been used since.
The Mario Party series also started with kyodai, but unlike the platformers, deka hasn't been fully adopted.
The functional reasons to split are rather limited, with the exceptions of Boo and possibly Goomba and Wiggler.
Dai is so underused that it almost seems to be just a transitional name for Deka, mainly making the divide between Kyodai and Deka.
While there are other unique terms like Mega and Big (loanwords), that's not what I'd like to focus on at this time.

See that wide stretch of time between SMG (2007) and SMM (2015)? That's when the wiki thought that "Big" was being kept around for good. Geez, thanks a lot, Mario Party, am I right?

Example articles

The examples used here will be the Goombas due to their long history. I'll include two scenarios: one where a split is based on Japanese names (including Mini/Small), and one where the split is based on boss status (discluding Mini/Small). Edited to remove links, references, categories, navigation, and names in other languages. Based on the Oct.20 revisions of these articles.

JP Hardline Split

So ya wanna do a hard Kyodai/Deka split. Fine, tough guy, but I'm keeping Dai out of it for now. My examples, my rules. (Unless you want those examples.)

Mega Goomba

"Mega Goomba" redirects here. For the boss from New Super Mario Bros., see Mega Goomba (boss).

“This giant Goomba is a giant pain! I think you're going to have to take it out for us to move forward.”

—Huey, Paper Mario: Color Splash

Mega Goombas, originally known as Grand Goombas, are up-sized Goombas that have appeared as recurring enemies throughout the Super Mario franchise. They are extremely similar to the Big Goombas that have supplanted them in the Super Mario series, but they have not demonstrated the ability to split when stomped.

History

Super Mario series

=Super Mario Bros. 3=

A Grand Goomba in Super Mario Bros. 3.

Grand Goombas make their first appearance in Super Mario Bros. 3, where they are only encountered in Giant Land, alongside Big Koopa Troopa and Big Piranha Plant. Despite their massive size, they do not pose much of a threat, as they share all of the same weaknesses as regular Goombas. In the 16-bit remakes of the game, their sprites are slightly redrawn.

=New Super Mario Bros.=

Main article: Mega Goomba (boss)

Although no Grand Goombas appear as regular enemies, Mega Goomba serves as a boss in World 4-Castle.

Nintendo Adventure Books

An uncommonly large Grand Goomba, thought to be the progenitor of the sub-species, appears in Koopa Capers, having been presumably brought to Dark Land by Wendy O. Koopa, who needed some of its leg hairs for a potion she wants to create. After crossing a Podoboo-infested body of lava in the Magma Pits, Luigi encounters the Grand Goomba wandering around aimlessly, and if he decides to crawl between its legs, he will go unnoticed by the giant fungus. If he decides to try and jump onto a nearby ledge instead however, the Grand Goomba will grab him mid-leap, stuff him in a sack, and begin to head home to the Land of the Giants, muttering that Luigi will make "a lovely plumber omelet".

Mario's Picross

The Grand Goomba puzzle

In Mario's Picross, a Grand Goomba appears in one of the puzzles.

Mario & Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games

A Grand Goomba appears as a boss in Ultimate Figure Skating in the Nintendo DS version of Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games. It appears as the boss for the Mario, Mario & Sonic and Mario & Sonic Download medleys, and can be defeated by performing step attacks.

Mario Golf: World Tour

A Grand Goomba appears in Mario Golf: World Tour on Hole 2 of Wiggler Park. Because it appears behind the green, it is unlikely that the player should hit the ball into it. If they manage to do so, it will cause the Grand Goomba to look around wondering what just happened while the player's ball would likely land Out of Bounds.

Mario Party series

Mega Goomba being fought in Mario Party 10.

Mega Goomba makes its first Mario Party appearance in Mario Party 10, although prior to this, Mario Party 8 introduced a Mega Goomba character named Captain Goomba. In Mario Party 10, a Mega Goomba is a boss fought in Mega Goomba's Ladder Leap, which involves players climbing up to a higher platform and jumping down onto it to deal damage. After enough hits, Mega Goomba is defeated. A Mega Goomba is also a boss in Mario Party: Star Rush, more specifically the first boss. His boss minigame, Mega Goomba's Bad Dream, has the players collect 25 apples when he is asleep. When Mega Goomba stops sleeping, players need to collect another 25 apples, though he attacks players who approach the apple pile. After the minigame ends, a butterfly appears and Mega Goomba chases it. In Toad Scramble mode, the winner gets one Star (two Stars if it is fought as the final boss of the board).

Paper Mario: Color Splash

Mega Goombas appear in Paper Mario: Color Splash as enemies fought in Mondo Woods. They were originally normal-sized Goombas until they were enlarged by Kamek's magic. Mega Goombas attack by jumping on Mario, doing 33 HP of damage.

Profiles and statistics

Mario Party: Star Rush

Name:
- Mega Goomba
  A Goomba enlarged by Kamek's magic.
Bio: "Once Mega Goomba spots a target, he will go rushing in for the attack. You'd better run if you're spotted!"

Paper Mario: Color Splash

Paper Mario: Color Splash enemy

Mega Goomba

HP

116

Type

Normal

Role

Common

Card

Strong

None

Weak

None

Card drop rate

5

Moves

Head Attack (33), Group Attack (33), Blowback Attack (116)

Location(s)

Mondo Woods

Quotes

Usual: "PRETTY BIG, RIGHT?" ~ "I LOOK DOWN ON YOU!" ~ "HOW DOES IT FEEL?!" ~ "BEAT IT, SMALL FRY!"

Enemy class

ENEMY_ZAKO_LV1_BIG

Dropped items

Hammer Scraps

20

Red paint

17

Yellow paint

17

Blue paint

0

Orange paint

17

Green paint

0

Purple paint

0

Gallery

Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario All-Stars
Screenshot from Paper Mario: Color Splash

Names in other languages

Language	Name	Meaning	Notes
Japanese	巨大きょだいクリボー Kyodai Kuribō	Giant Goomba

Big Goomba

Not to be confused with Giant Goomba or Hefty Goomba.

Big Goombas, alternatively known as Giant Goombas, are up-sized Goombas that have appeared as recurring enemies throughout the Super Mario franchise. They are larger than Hefty Goombas, and much larger than common Goombas.