MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/53: Difference between revisions
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{{MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive Template}} | {{MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/Template}} | ||
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===Split ''[[Diddy Kong Pilot]]'' into ''Diddy Kong Pilot (2001)'' and ''Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)''=== | ===Split ''[[Diddy Kong Pilot]]'' into ''Diddy Kong Pilot (2001)'' and ''Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)''=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|12-0|split}} | ||
Hi, this is Results May Vary. I am the administrator of the defunct DK Wiki. So one thing I've noticed is the mess on the ''[[Diddy Kong Pilot]]'' page--it covers two versions of Diddy Kong Pilot that are actually entirely different from each other. And it makes merging the [http://www.dkwiki.com/Diddy_Kong_Pilot_(2001) 2001] and [http://www.dkwiki.com/Diddy_Kong_Pilot_(2003) 2003] pages more difficult. The two are so different that the 2003 build is even more similar to ''[https://banjokazooiewiki.com/wiki/Banjo-Pilot Banjo-Pilot]''. I remember there's some history as to why ''Diddy Kong Pilot'' was [http://web.archive.org/web/20120102053341/http://www.rarewarecentral.com/diddy-kong-pilot entirely reskinned along the way]. The 2003 version of ''Diddy Kong Pilot'' was from that year, according to the original title of the [https://nintendoeverything.com/diddy-kong-pilot-screenshots-videos-details-and-more/nggallery/page/2/image/diddy_kong_pilot-26/ YouTube gameplay video]. Unfortunately, for unknown reasons, the YouTube account is gone, and the only information we have left from that time are via forum threads such as [https://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45813 The RWP] or [https://www.neogaf.com/threads/new-diddy-kong-pilot-footage-appears.447203/ NeoGAF]. Thanks for reading. | Hi, this is Results May Vary. I am the administrator of the defunct DK Wiki. So one thing I've noticed is the mess on the ''[[Diddy Kong Pilot]]'' page--it covers two versions of Diddy Kong Pilot that are actually entirely different from each other. And it makes merging the [http://www.dkwiki.com/Diddy_Kong_Pilot_(2001) 2001] and [http://www.dkwiki.com/Diddy_Kong_Pilot_(2003) 2003] pages more difficult. The two are so different that the 2003 build is even more similar to ''[https://banjokazooiewiki.com/wiki/Banjo-Pilot Banjo-Pilot]''. I remember there's some history as to why ''Diddy Kong Pilot'' was [http://web.archive.org/web/20120102053341/http://www.rarewarecentral.com/diddy-kong-pilot entirely reskinned along the way]. The 2003 version of ''Diddy Kong Pilot'' was from that year, according to the original title of the [https://nintendoeverything.com/diddy-kong-pilot-screenshots-videos-details-and-more/nggallery/page/2/image/diddy_kong_pilot-26/ YouTube gameplay video]. Unfortunately, for unknown reasons, the YouTube account is gone, and the only information we have left from that time are via forum threads such as [https://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45813 The RWP] or [https://www.neogaf.com/threads/new-diddy-kong-pilot-footage-appears.447203/ NeoGAF]. Thanks for reading. | ||
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::::They are also both within the plane-flying genre, they just had a complete overhaul. It's basically a scrapped alpha/beta and another one built from the ground up. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 03:34, 16 January 2019 (EST) | ::::They are also both within the plane-flying genre, they just had a complete overhaul. It's basically a scrapped alpha/beta and another one built from the ground up. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 03:34, 16 January 2019 (EST) | ||
===Delete certain Game & Watch game articles=== | ===Delete certain Game & Watch game articles=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|6-2|Delete}} | ||
Currently, we have several articles for Game & Watch games that have no relation to the Mario series. Unlike other Game & Watch games we cover, these do not have "Modern" remakes featuring Mario elements, and do not appear as microgames, or if they do the articles neglect to mention them. Most, if not all, of these articles are only justified by the flimsy connection of them being playable in the Game & Watch Gallery games alongside other Game & Watch games which do have Modern versions featuring Mario elements and have earned their place here. However, ''Game & Watch Gallery 4'', which most of these games are included in, also has a port of the Zelda Game & Watch game which we do not cover and instead link to ZeldaWiki for. We don't have articles for the non-Mario minigames in ''Nintendo Land'', or games like ''Duck Hunt'' which were bundled with Mario games in the past, so why should we have these? It could also be argued that some of these games influenced Mr. Game & Watch's moveset in Smash, but I don't think that's a valid reason to keep these considering our lessened Smash coverage. | Currently, we have several articles for Game & Watch games that have no relation to the Mario series. Unlike other Game & Watch games we cover, these do not have "Modern" remakes featuring Mario elements, and do not appear as microgames, or if they do the articles neglect to mention them. Most, if not all, of these articles are only justified by the flimsy connection of them being playable in the Game & Watch Gallery games alongside other Game & Watch games which do have Modern versions featuring Mario elements and have earned their place here. However, ''Game & Watch Gallery 4'', which most of these games are included in, also has a port of the Zelda Game & Watch game which we do not cover and instead link to ZeldaWiki for. We don't have articles for the non-Mario minigames in ''Nintendo Land'', or games like ''Duck Hunt'' which were bundled with Mario games in the past, so why should we have these? It could also be argued that some of these games influenced Mr. Game & Watch's moveset in Smash, but I don't think that's a valid reason to keep these considering our lessened Smash coverage. | ||
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:[[Jetpac]] is essential to be played and completed if one wants to complete DK64. It is necessary to obtain the [[Rareware Coin]]. Playing through to the end of DK64 will unquestionably force the player to play it. The G&W games without Mario remakes are not as essential to the game they are a part of. They are extra, bonus content, equivalent in my mind to Duck Hunt and World Class Track Meet. As Waluigi Time mentioned, as well, Pyoro was created in WarioWare and is a product of the WarioWare series. These G&W games had no connection to Mario when they were envisioned, created, and sold. For me, I like to hit the 'Random Button' on this wiki when I'm bored and read something Mario-related to pass the time. It's always stuck me as very, very strange that one could hit the Random button and get a page about Tropical Fish. It was even worse in the past when I would hit the button and get Goldeen, Aether and Hyrule Castle all in a row, but thankfully some of that has been trimmed. I think trimming these articles is a good step in the same direction. Furthermore, if we were to go by the logic of including games because they're included in games we cover (a la Jetpac > DK64), then wouldn't we need an article about all of the Masterpieces included in SSBB and SSB4? That would be crazy. [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 19:54, 25 January 2019 (EST) | :[[Jetpac]] is essential to be played and completed if one wants to complete DK64. It is necessary to obtain the [[Rareware Coin]]. Playing through to the end of DK64 will unquestionably force the player to play it. The G&W games without Mario remakes are not as essential to the game they are a part of. They are extra, bonus content, equivalent in my mind to Duck Hunt and World Class Track Meet. As Waluigi Time mentioned, as well, Pyoro was created in WarioWare and is a product of the WarioWare series. These G&W games had no connection to Mario when they were envisioned, created, and sold. For me, I like to hit the 'Random Button' on this wiki when I'm bored and read something Mario-related to pass the time. It's always stuck me as very, very strange that one could hit the Random button and get a page about Tropical Fish. It was even worse in the past when I would hit the button and get Goldeen, Aether and Hyrule Castle all in a row, but thankfully some of that has been trimmed. I think trimming these articles is a good step in the same direction. Furthermore, if we were to go by the logic of including games because they're included in games we cover (a la Jetpac > DK64), then wouldn't we need an article about all of the Masterpieces included in SSBB and SSB4? That would be crazy. [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 19:54, 25 January 2019 (EST) | ||
===Update the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] to strongly discourage abbreviations of game titles on mainspace articles=== | ===Update the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] to strongly discourage abbreviations of game titles on mainspace articles=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|failed|2-5-8|do nothing}} | ||
NSMBUDX is a port of NSMBU. What? While that example was made up [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=King_K._Rool&diff=2578948&oldid=2577575 abbreviations are] [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Munch_a_Bunch&diff=prev&oldid=2580926 quite] [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Clean_Sweep_(microgame)&diff=prev&oldid=2580306 common] in articles, and can be annoying to read or even downright confusing, such as the previously mentioned King K. Rool edit where not only was ''[[Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest]]'' shorted, but ''[[Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!]]'' was abbreviated to ''3'', which can be extremely confusing to a reader if they do not know the abbreviations of a game, especially in the case of ''3'' as there is several threequels in the Donkey Kong franchise with 3 in their name, such as [[Donkey Konga 3: Tabehōdai! Haru Mogitate 50 Kyoku]]. There is other examples of potentially confusing abbreviations such the commonly used ''Deluxe'' abbreviation for ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe]]'', which could be mistaken for ''[[Super Mario Bros. Deluxe]]''. This is why I am proposing that we update the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] to strongly discourage abbreviations of game titles on mainspace articles '''only''', as this would greatly improve reading experience. Please note that this only applies to the main content of mainspace articles as, redirects of commonly used abbreviations, talk pages and user discussion, the {{tem|redirect}} and {{tem|about}} templates in articles, and brief mentions of an official abbreviation in the article such as with '''''Fire Stalking Piranha Plants''' (sometimes abbreviated as '''Fire Stalking Piranha Pl.''' and '''Fire Stalking P . Plant''')'' (Imagine that sentence referring to a game title) are fine as they tell and help guide users with popular or official abbreviations, however the main content of an article should have the full, official name of the game if this proposal passes. In my opinion, this change would greatly improve user experience. | NSMBUDX is a port of NSMBU. What? While that example was made up [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=King_K._Rool&diff=2578948&oldid=2577575 abbreviations are] [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Munch_a_Bunch&diff=prev&oldid=2580926 quite] [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Clean_Sweep_(microgame)&diff=prev&oldid=2580306 common] in articles, and can be annoying to read or even downright confusing, such as the previously mentioned King K. Rool edit where not only was ''[[Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest]]'' shorted, but ''[[Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!]]'' was abbreviated to ''3'', which can be extremely confusing to a reader if they do not know the abbreviations of a game, especially in the case of ''3'' as there is several threequels in the Donkey Kong franchise with 3 in their name, such as [[Donkey Konga 3: Tabehōdai! Haru Mogitate 50 Kyoku]]. There is other examples of potentially confusing abbreviations such the commonly used ''Deluxe'' abbreviation for ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe]]'', which could be mistaken for ''[[Super Mario Bros. Deluxe]]''. This is why I am proposing that we update the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] to strongly discourage abbreviations of game titles on mainspace articles '''only''', as this would greatly improve reading experience. Please note that this only applies to the main content of mainspace articles as, redirects of commonly used abbreviations, talk pages and user discussion, the {{tem|redirect}} and {{tem|about}} templates in articles, and brief mentions of an official abbreviation in the article such as with '''''Fire Stalking Piranha Plants''' (sometimes abbreviated as '''Fire Stalking Piranha Pl.''' and '''Fire Stalking P . Plant''')'' (Imagine that sentence referring to a game title) are fine as they tell and help guide users with popular or official abbreviations, however the main content of an article should have the full, official name of the game if this proposal passes. In my opinion, this change would greatly improve user experience. | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
'''''Please note''''' that the Game Boy Advance versions of the ''Donkey Kong Country'' games '''''do not''''' have subtitles. Therefore, when referring to them, they should just be ''Donkey Kong Country 2'' and ''Donkey Kong Country 3''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:27, 16 January 2019 (EST) | '''''Please note''''' that the Game Boy Advance versions of the ''Donkey Kong Country'' games '''''do not''''' have subtitles. Therefore, when referring to them, they should just be ''Donkey Kong Country 2'' and ''Donkey Kong Country 3''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:27, 16 January 2019 (EST) | ||
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===Delete [[Do the Donkey Kong]]=== | ===Delete [[Do the Donkey Kong]]=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|4-0|Merge the article}} | ||
This article should just be a short section in [[List of | This article should just be a short section in [[List of references in music]]. It does not need an article for itself and can be turned into a redirect. See [[Talk:Do the Donkey Kong]]. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Platform}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|Platform}}<br> | ||
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===Decide how to handle ''Donkey Kong Country 2'' and ''Land 2'' boss stages=== | ===Decide how to handle ''Donkey Kong Country 2'' and ''Land 2'' boss stages=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|3-11-0|Split the boss stages, excluding Stronghold Showdown}} | ||
As of right now, most of the boss stages for these two games still need articles. So far, only two exist: [[Kreepy Krow (level)]] and [[Krocodile Kore]]. However, these articles cover both the ''DKC2'' an ''DKL2'' versions of the stage, which is not consistent with how we cover the other levels in these games. The levels in ''DKC2'' and ''DKL2'', despite sharing names and themes, are split due to having different designs. The boss battles aren't identical between games either, so it makes sense to split these as well. | As of right now, most of the boss stages for these two games still need articles. So far, only two exist: [[Kreepy Krow (level)]] and [[Krocodile Kore]]. However, these articles cover both the ''DKC2'' an ''DKL2'' versions of the stage, which is not consistent with how we cover the other levels in these games. The levels in ''DKC2'' and ''DKL2'', despite sharing names and themes, are split due to having different designs. The boss battles aren't identical between games either, so it makes sense to split these as well. | ||
However, there is one I'm not sure about: [[Stronghold Showdown]]. Unlike everything else, this really is the same thing in both games - a small castle room with a short cutscene where DK is seen tied up before being taken to the Flying Krock. While splitting it would be consistent with all of the other ''DKC2''/''DKL2'' splits, it would also create two articles that are basically the same thing. The only game where Stronghold Showdown is actually different is the GBA version of ''DKC2'', where [[Kerozene]] is added as a boss. Plus, we've already [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Split the levels exclusive to the Wii U version of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker from their Super Mario 3D World counterparts|voted not to split]] the returning ''Super Mario 3D World'' levels in the Wii U version of ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'' for a similar reason. | However, there is one I'm not sure about: [[Stronghold Showdown]]. Unlike everything else, this really is the same thing in both games - a small castle room with a short cutscene where DK is seen tied up before being taken to the Flying Krock. While splitting it would be consistent with all of the other ''DKC2''/''DKL2'' splits, it would also create two articles that are basically the same thing. The only game where Stronghold Showdown is actually different is the GBA version of ''DKC2'', where [[Kerozene]] is added as a boss. Plus, we've already [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Split the levels exclusive to the Wii U version of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker from their Super Mario 3D World counterparts|voted not to split]] the returning ''Super Mario 3D World'' levels in the Wii U version of ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'' for a similar reason. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|7feetunder}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|7feetunder}}<br> | ||
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===Standardize species as the main article for subjects sharing an identical "character" and "species" name=== | ===Standardize species as the main article for subjects sharing an identical "character" and "species" name=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|failed|6-3-9|no change}} | ||
This proposal is directed at subjects with shared names that have both a separate "character" and "species" article. To sum it up: despite species by its nature alone having way more [[Toad#Possible appearances|conclusive]] [[Boom Boom (species)#History|appearances]] throughout the franchise's entire history, practically being universally treated as the official default or "[[List of Toad profiles and statistics#Miis.27 Dialogues .28Wii U version.29|current]] [[List of Yoshi profiles and statistics#Miis.27 Dialogues .28Wii U version.29|story]]" depiction for years by Nintendo themselves (since at least ''Paper Mario'' and arguably earlier), and being the far likelier search result for younger fans who ''didn't'' grow up aware of these individual characters (which were made popular in legacy media for the most part), the wiki uses the generic character articles as the main default while the broader species article is the one that most often gets the identifier. As far as I can tell, this isn't actually due to any conscious decision on anyone's part, but rather a mere snowball effect inadvertently created from around the wiki's [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Toad_(species)&diff=2342&oldid=2339 early days.] | This proposal is directed at subjects with shared names that have both a separate "character" and "species" article. To sum it up: despite species by its nature alone having way more [[Toad#Possible appearances|conclusive]] [[Boom Boom (species)#History|appearances]] throughout the franchise's entire history, practically being universally treated as the official default or "[[List of Toad profiles and statistics#Miis.27 Dialogues .28Wii U version.29|current]] [[List of Yoshi profiles and statistics#Miis.27 Dialogues .28Wii U version.29|story]]" depiction for years by Nintendo themselves (since at least ''Paper Mario'' and arguably earlier), and being the far likelier search result for younger fans who ''didn't'' grow up aware of these individual characters (which were made popular in legacy media for the most part), the wiki uses the generic character articles as the main default while the broader species article is the one that most often gets the identifier. As far as I can tell, this isn't actually due to any conscious decision on anyone's part, but rather a mere snowball effect inadvertently created from around the wiki's [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Toad_(species)&diff=2342&oldid=2339 early days.] | ||
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just keep an eye out for this stylish blue jacket. | just keep an eye out for this stylish blue jacket. | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
He says that if you're looking for him you have to look for the blue jacket. Making the playable one with that color so you could recognize him among the many makes sense, but you need to remember that {{ | He says that if you're looking for him you have to look for the blue jacket. Making the playable one with that color so you could recognize him among the many makes sense, but you need to remember that {{file link|ToadSMB.jpg|this is the standard appearance of Toads since the very beginning}}, before the concept of a Toad character was even a thing. And as LinktheLefty noticed, this remained the standard appearance of Toads. {{file link|SMO Mushroom Brochure D.png|Even ''Super Mario Odyssey'' confirms this is still true}}. Of course playable characters need to stand out, but that doesn't mean that the appearance isn't the standard one, just that in those game they need to use the other color variants not to create confusion among the players.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:15, 29 January 2019 (EST) | ||
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===Bring Back Fake Reminders and Warnings=== | ===Bring Back Fake Reminders and Warnings=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|failed|1-17|don't bring back}} | ||
Hi, this is Mari0fan100. I've seen fake reminders, warnings, and last warnings get banned for 8.5 years now, but some of them make me laugh! I think we should bring them back for amusement, but if we do, they cannot be used inappropriately, only for fun purposes. | Hi, this is Mari0fan100. I've seen fake reminders, warnings, and last warnings get banned for 8.5 years now, but some of them make me laugh! I think we should bring them back for amusement, but if we do, they cannot be used inappropriately, only for fun purposes. | ||
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===Ban certain cases of future tense from the wiki=== | ===Ban certain cases of future tense from the wiki=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|20-1|ban}} | ||
No, not discourage. Ban. | No, not discourage. Ban. | ||
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===Merge Assist Trophies that have made minor appearances in the ''Mario'' franchise=== | ===Merge Assist Trophies that have made minor appearances in the ''Mario'' franchise=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|11-0|merge}} | ||
'''(See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | '''(See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/51#Smash_Bros._Articles:_What_Stays_and_What_Goes.3F|this proposal]] before voting.)''' | ||
After the merge for almost all of the categories listed in the linked proposal, there were a handful of pages that were left over, a number of them being [[Assist Trophy|Assist Trophies]]. The reason for this seems to be that they've made some sort of appearance in the ''Mario'' games, be it appearances as Mystery Mushroom [[Costume Mario|costumes]] in ''Super Mario Maker'' and cameos in ''WarioWare'' microgames. However, when you think about the fact that Mystery Mushroom costumes like Babymetal and microgame characters (both non-playable and playable, e.g. the [[Pikmin 2|Empress Bulbax]] or the [[Urban Champion]] fighter) don't have their own articles - which was part of the reason [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | After the merge for almost all of the categories listed in the linked proposal, there were a handful of pages that were left over, a number of them being [[Assist Trophy|Assist Trophies]]. The reason for this seems to be that they've made some sort of appearance in the ''Mario'' games, be it appearances as Mystery Mushroom [[Costume Mario|costumes]] in ''Super Mario Maker'' and cameos in ''WarioWare'' microgames. However, when you think about the fact that Mystery Mushroom costumes like Babymetal and microgame characters (both non-playable and playable, e.g. the [[Pikmin 2|Empress Bulbax]] or the [[Urban Champion]] fighter) don't have their own articles - which was part of the reason [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/48#Decide_if_Nintendo_Badge_Arcade_constitutes_a_guest_appearance|Arcade Bunny was deleted]] - their still being separate doesn't quite make sense. We've already decided to merge the Assist Trophies, and minor appearances like these in any kind of ''Mario''-related media alone don't warrant separate articles. There have been a few that have already been picked off individually (adding to the inconsistency), [[Talk:Midna|including Midna's page]]; using that as a precedent, it's time we finish this in one fell swoop. | ||
For the sake of going with the original plan of enacting the changes to our ''Smash'' coverage one step at a time, I'm only focusing on the Assist Trophy characters in this proposal instead of every non-''Mario'' subject that may have articles out there, with one exception I found was similar enough to include (see below). | For the sake of going with the original plan of enacting the changes to our ''Smash'' coverage one step at a time, I'm only focusing on the Assist Trophy characters in this proposal instead of every non-''Mario'' subject that may have articles out there, with one exception I found was similar enough to include (see below). | ||
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===Remove information about ''Captain N: The Game Master'' + ''Captain Rainbow'' from non-Mario subjects=== | ===Remove information about ''Captain N: The Game Master'' + ''Captain Rainbow'' from non-Mario subjects=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|failed|1-1-3-0-0-5|keep all information}} | ||
Currently, [[MarioWiki:Coverage]] considers ''Captain N: The Game Master'' a guest appearance. However, for some reason, editors have decided that this means we should also cover appearances in the show of non-Mario characters that have crossed over with the Mario series in other more relevant media. Additionally, whenever ''Captain N'' is referenced as a subject's first appearance, it is mentioned as "Mario-related media", which I think is inaccurate based on our coverage policy, although this is only done on three articles, while the rest ignore the show in their infobox entirely. | Currently, [[MarioWiki:Coverage]] considers ''Captain N: The Game Master'' a guest appearance. However, for some reason, editors have decided that this means we should also cover appearances in the show of non-Mario characters that have crossed over with the Mario series in other more relevant media. Additionally, whenever ''Captain N'' is referenced as a subject's first appearance, it is mentioned as "Mario-related media", which I think is inaccurate based on our coverage policy, although this is only done on three articles, while the rest ignore the show in their infobox entirely. | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
fyi, even if this pass, I would strongy recommend against removing the Captain N info from the pages about the show's core cast (which is to say, Simon Pit and Mega Man) and Dr. Wily since they all interract with Donkey Kong at some point. Infact, one of the show's episode is about Simon Belmont getting knocked on the head, wake up thinking he's Donkey Kong Jr. and going out to find his "father". So yeah, bad idea. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 13:49, March 16, 2019 (EDT) | fyi, even if this pass, I would strongy recommend against removing the Captain N info from the pages about the show's core cast (which is to say, Simon Pit and Mega Man) and Dr. Wily since they all interract with Donkey Kong at some point. Infact, one of the show's episode is about Simon Belmont getting knocked on the head, wake up thinking he's Donkey Kong Jr. and going out to find his "father". So yeah, bad idea. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 13:49, March 16, 2019 (EDT) | ||
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===''Super Mario Galaxy'' / ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' fiery counterparts=== | ===''Super Mario Galaxy'' / ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' fiery counterparts=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|failed|6-2-9|do nothing}} | ||
A while ago, I asked {{User|LinkTheLefty}} if "Fiery Gobblegut" is the name of [[Fiery Gobblegut|the fiery version of Gobblegut found in Battle Belt Galaxy]], and he said that the name is unofficial. Since it has also come to our attention that the ''fierier'' version of [[King Kaliente]] from Bowser Jr.'s Lava Reactor does not have its own separate article, I propose we do any of the following: | A while ago, I asked {{User|LinkTheLefty}} if "Fiery Gobblegut" is the name of [[Fiery Gobblegut|the fiery version of Gobblegut found in Battle Belt Galaxy]], and he said that the name is unofficial. Since it has also come to our attention that the ''fierier'' version of [[King Kaliente]] from Bowser Jr.'s Lava Reactor does not have its own separate article, I propose we do any of the following: | ||
<ol style="list-style-type: upper-alpha;"> | <ol style="list-style-type: upper-alpha;"> | ||
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#{{User|Doomhiker}} As long as the fire versions of the bosses that are called the same as their regular forms have a good identifier such as (fire) I am fine with this. Per all. | #{{User|Doomhiker}} As long as the fire versions of the bosses that are called the same as their regular forms have a good identifier such as (fire) I am fine with this. Per all. | ||
#{{User|bwburke94}} Per proposal. | #{{User|bwburke94}} Per proposal. | ||
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Actually, it turns out that the "fiery" King Kaliente not only has a different Japanese name (「オタキング（黒）」, ''Black King Kaliente''), but also its own {{ | #{{User|Mister Wu}} Actually, it turns out that the "fiery" King Kaliente not only has a different Japanese name (「オタキング（黒）」, ''Black King Kaliente''), but also its own {{file link|ESMB page 126 Enemies.png|separate}} {{file link|ESMB page 127.png|artwork}}, so I'm going to agree with the split. | ||
====Option B==== | ====Option B==== | ||
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:クッパJr.クリーチャープラント | :クッパJr.クリーチャープラント | ||
:溶岩でおおわれた、オタキング(黒)の待ち受ける惑星。 | :溶岩でおおわれた、オタキング(黒)の待ち受ける惑星。 | ||
:<br | :<br> | ||
:溶岩惑星のオタキング | :溶岩惑星のオタキング | ||
:足場が不安定な溶岩の上で、オタキング(黒)とバトル。 | :足場が不安定な溶岩の上で、オタキング(黒)とバトル。 | ||
| Line 541: | Line 539: | ||
: | : | ||
:灼熱!怒りのガブリュウ | :灼熱!怒りのガブリュウ | ||
:ハラペコチコで異なるルートへ。 | :ハラペコチコで異なるルートへ。{{hover|灼熱|しゃくねつ}}状態となったガブリュウとバトル。 | ||
: | : | ||
:As far as the game and the Encycloepdia are concerned, Black King Kaliente and Black Gobblegut are treated in the same manner: | :As far as the game and the Encycloepdia are concerned, Black King Kaliente and Black Gobblegut are treated in the same manner: | ||
| Line 564: | Line 562: | ||
:Eh, I don't think that really helps since you could easily interpret it both ways. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:29, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | :Eh, I don't think that really helps since you could easily interpret it both ways. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:29, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::I'd assume we wouldn't turn to the English copy of the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia for much? Given the controversy around English translations and such, but just in case, I did want to mention that the book has a more set name for Fire Gobblegut (being just that) while King Kaliente is only listed as "King Kaliente (Scorched)". {{User:Tails777/sig}} | ::I'd assume we wouldn't turn to the English copy of the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia for much? Given the controversy around English translations and such, but just in case, I did want to mention that the book has a more set name for Fire Gobblegut (being just that) while King Kaliente is only listed as "King Kaliente (Scorched)". {{User:Tails777/sig}} | ||
:::[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|It's not possible to rely on that]], in any case we have the original Japanese text above. They both have the same naming scheme, ''name of the boss'' (''black''). Actually, the Japanese text doesn't even use ''Gobblegut (Black)'' in the description of the mission, it only uses ''Gobblegut'', while ''King Kaliente (Black)'' is specifically mentioned in both the description of Bowser Jr.'s Lava Reactor and in the description of the mission.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:35, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | :::[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|It's not possible to rely on that]], in any case we have the original Japanese text above. They both have the same naming scheme, ''name of the boss'' (''black''). Actually, the Japanese text doesn't even use ''Gobblegut (Black)'' in the description of the mission, it only uses ''Gobblegut'', while ''King Kaliente (Black)'' is specifically mentioned in both the description of Bowser Jr.'s Lava Reactor and in the description of the mission.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:35, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::::Yeah, let's not. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 03:02, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | ::::Yeah, let's not. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 03:02, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::::It's just too complicated. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:01, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | :::::It's just too complicated. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:01, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | ||
| Line 571: | Line 569: | ||
===Change the source priority exception to a more case-by-case basis=== | ===Change the source priority exception to a more case-by-case basis=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|cancelled}} | ||
I've seen a proposal [[MarioWiki talk:Naming#Make an exception to source priority for articles with identical names]], which decidedly made an exception to priority names. However, i don't like this setup. While i prefer "Klamber" and "Scorchit", over "Scuttle Bug" and "Zeus Guy", i've seen articles named after their internal filenames, taking priority over guide names. And i also know at least one (or possibly two) example(s) doing that. I also want to say that "but has a confusing english name" is arbitrary. Given the Urchin situation that has driven me mad during a whole proposal, and potentially that Gringill split, it's time to stop making exception for internal filenames.) | I've seen a proposal [[MarioWiki talk:Naming#Make an exception to source priority for articles with identical names]], which decidedly made an exception to priority names. However, i don't like this setup. While i prefer "Klamber" and "Scorchit", over "Scuttle Bug" and "Zeus Guy", i've seen articles named after their internal filenames, taking priority over guide names. And i also know at least one (or possibly two) example(s) doing that. I also want to say that "but has a confusing english name" is arbitrary. Given the Urchin situation that has driven me mad during a whole proposal, and potentially that Gringill split, it's time to stop making exception for internal filenames.) | ||
| Line 598: | Line 596: | ||
===Either restrict usage of or don't use NTSC or PAL on articles=== | ===Either restrict usage of or don't use NTSC or PAL on articles=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|7-9-1|Use NTSC or PAL only for articles that relate to the older home consoles, while using the British or American English terminology for handheld consoles, the Wii U and the Nintendo Switch}} | ||
It's common knowledge to mention regional differences between versions of the same game across the globe and there's nothing wrong with that. You know what is, though? Using the terms "NTSC" and "PAL" when it actually wouldn't really apply that well in the first place. | It's common knowledge to mention regional differences between versions of the same game across the globe and there's nothing wrong with that. You know what is, though? Using the terms "NTSC" and "PAL" when it actually wouldn't really apply that well in the first place. | ||
| Line 644: | Line 642: | ||
====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
From what I've seen, people don't say that they're "NTSC" or "PAL," but say "NTSC region" or "PAL region," which works as a shorthand way of denoting the regional split where differences tend to crop up. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:43, March 14, 2019 (EDT) | From what I've seen, people don't say that they're "NTSC" or "PAL," but say "NTSC region" or "PAL region," which works as a shorthand way of denoting the regional split where differences tend to crop up. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:43, March 14, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:Uh, interesting. Never knew that until now (either that, or I never really saw that crop up that often). For the most part, whenever people mention it, they usually say "NTSC version" or "PAL version." – [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 21:58, March 14, 2019 (EDT) | :Uh, interesting. Never knew that until now (either that, or I never really saw that crop up that often). For the most part, whenever people mention it, they usually say "NTSC version" or "PAL version." – [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 21:58, March 14, 2019 (EDT) | ||
| Line 657: | Line 654: | ||
===Recreate the numbered Mario Kart redirects=== | ===Recreate the numbered Mario Kart redirects=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|13-0|restore redirects}} | ||
The recent [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Throw_Block&curid=280139&action=history controversy over the new Throw Block redirect] threw me back to a certain proposal made almost two years ago. Yes, I'm talking about [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 49#Delete certain numbered Mario Kart redirects|this travesty]] that, despite being a clear violation of the redirect policy then, and even moreso now, still somehow passed 12-7, deleting all the numbered Mario Kart redirects that could have actually helped people who wanted to know what, say, the fourth Mario Kart game was. | The recent [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Throw_Block&curid=280139&action=history controversy over the new Throw Block redirect] threw me back to a certain proposal made almost two years ago. Yes, I'm talking about [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/49#Delete certain numbered Mario Kart redirects|this travesty]] that, despite being a clear violation of the redirect policy then, and even moreso now, still somehow passed 12-7, deleting all the numbered Mario Kart redirects that could have actually helped people who wanted to know what, say, the fourth Mario Kart game was. | ||
All the reasons given on the support side of that linked proposal are flawed. To quote my vote in that proposal: "''According to [[MarioWiki:Redirects]], "If there's even a small chance that a redirect will help someone, it's not useless." And while there may only be one person in the world who calls them that, that's more then zero; hence, '''they're not useless'''.''" | All the reasons given on the support side of that linked proposal are flawed. To quote my vote in that proposal: "''According to [[MarioWiki:Redirects]], "If there's even a small chance that a redirect will help someone, it's not useless." And while there may only be one person in the world who calls them that, that's more then zero; hence, '''they're not useless'''.''" | ||
| Line 714: | Line 711: | ||
===Decide on a phrase to describe crossover appearances with the ''Mario'' franchise=== | ===Decide on a phrase to describe crossover appearances with the ''Mario'' franchise=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|0-0-1-1-12-1|"Mario-related media"}} | ||
The way non-Mario character infoboxes describe their crossovers with Mario is currently inconsistent from page to page. For example, [[Squirtle]]'s appearances with Mario are described as "crossovers with the ''Mario'' franchise", while [[Sonic the Hedgehog]]'s are described simply as "crossover installments". The goal of this proposal is to decide on a particular formula from those available on the wiki. Here's the options: | The way non-Mario character infoboxes describe their crossovers with Mario is currently inconsistent from page to page. For example, [[Squirtle]]'s appearances with Mario are described as "crossovers with the ''Mario'' franchise", while [[Sonic the Hedgehog]]'s are described simply as "crossover installments". The goal of this proposal is to decide on a particular formula from those available on the wiki. Here's the options: | ||
*'''Crossover installments:''' to me, this is too vague. It seems like it could refer to any crossover installment, not necessarily linked to Mario. | *'''Crossover installments:''' to me, this is too vague. It seems like it could refer to any crossover installment, not necessarily linked to Mario. | ||
| Line 765: | Line 762: | ||
:I added it. {{User:Bye Guy/Sig}} 07:47, May 12, 2019 (EDT) | :I added it. {{User:Bye Guy/Sig}} 07:47, May 12, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::Why do we have to change anything at all? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:19, May 13, 2019 (EDT) | ::Why do we have to change anything at all? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:19, May 13, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::It's always professional to find a rule for situations like these and be consistent with it. That said, I have a terrible time deciding things by myself unless I have someone else's opinion, so I made a proposal. There was once a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 48#Colons in navigation templates|proposal]] to remove the colon in title abbreviations used in the code of certain game-related nav templates. It might seem minor, but the punctilious nature of the proposal itself stresses that this wiki is (to a great extent) serious business. -- {{User:Bye Guy/Sig}} 19:27, May 13, 2019 (EDT) | :::It's always professional to find a rule for situations like these and be consistent with it. That said, I have a terrible time deciding things by myself unless I have someone else's opinion, so I made a proposal. There was once a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/48#Colons in navigation templates|proposal]] to remove the colon in title abbreviations used in the code of certain game-related nav templates. It might seem minor, but the punctilious nature of the proposal itself stresses that this wiki is (to a great extent) serious business. -- {{User:Bye Guy/Sig}} 19:27, May 13, 2019 (EDT) | ||
===Delete minor species navigation templates=== | ===Delete minor species navigation templates=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|failed|1-10|keep}} | ||
I've noticed a large amount of navigation templates for minor species, like [[Template:Octoombas]] and [[Template:Bandits]]. Most of them are just categories in template form, and a large amount of them ''already'' have categories for that exact purpose. However, navigation templates for major enemies, like [[Template:Goombas]], [[Template:Koopa Troopas]], and [[Template:Wigglers]] can stay, because they have a large amount of variants and have appeared in a large amount of games. EDIT: A "minor" nav template would be classified as a nav template with less than ten entries and has a category for its exact purpose. | I've noticed a large amount of navigation templates for minor species, like [[Template:Octoombas]] and [[Template:Bandits]]. Most of them are just categories in template form, and a large amount of them ''already'' have categories for that exact purpose. However, navigation templates for major enemies, like [[Template:Goombas]], [[Template:Koopa Troopas]], and [[Template:Wigglers]] can stay, because they have a large amount of variants and have appeared in a large amount of games. EDIT: A "minor" nav template would be classified as a nav template with less than ten entries and has a category for its exact purpose. | ||
| Line 799: | Line 796: | ||
@TDA I am pretty sure that Template:Octoombas '''was''' split into "characters" and "species" navigation, due to the Octoomba bosses. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 08:23, June 9, 2019 (EDT) | @TDA I am pretty sure that Template:Octoombas '''was''' split into "characters" and "species" navigation, due to the Octoomba bosses. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 08:23, June 9, 2019 (EDT) | ||
===Create articles on Play Nintendo games=== | ===Create articles on Play Nintendo games=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|green|create 12-0}} | ||
We have a whole [[Template: | We have a whole [[Template:Computer|template]] for computer games, which includes browser games. For Play Nintendo games and quizzes, Some articles [[What does THAT thing do?|have]] [[Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker Fun Quiz|been]] [[Mini Mario & Friends: amiibo Challenge Trivia Quiz|created]], but links to them on the [[Play Nintendo|main article]] were removed. I think we should come to an agreement if we're going to make articles on them or not. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}}<br> | ||
| Line 827: | Line 824: | ||
===Merge at least some of Bowser's forms=== | ===Merge at least some of Bowser's forms=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|0-18-0|merge everything except Meowser}} | ||
Okay, [[Fire Koopa|what]] [[Frog Koopa|are]] [[Raccoon Koopa|these]] doing as separate articles? In all honesty, I don't think they really warrant separate articles at all, seeing as how they're identical to the base form. Therefore, I propose that the following merges take place: | Okay, [[Fire Koopa|what]] [[Frog Koopa|are]] [[Raccoon Koopa|these]] doing as separate articles? In all honesty, I don't think they really warrant separate articles at all, seeing as how they're identical to the base form. Therefore, I propose that the following merges take place: | ||
*[[Fire Koopa]] to [[Fire Mario]] | *[[Fire Koopa]] to [[Fire Mario]] | ||
*[[Frog Koopa]] to [[Frog Mario]] | *[[Frog Koopa]] to [[Frog Mario]] | ||
*[[Raccoon Koopa]] to [[Raccoon Mario]] | *[[Raccoon Koopa]] to [[Raccoon Mario]] | ||
*[[Metal Bowser]] to [[Metal Mario (form)]] | *[[Metal Bowser]] to [[Metal Mario|Metal Mario (form)]] | ||
*[[Meowser]] to [[Cat Mario]] (or not, for reasons stated below) | *[[Meowser]] to [[Cat Mario]] (or not, for reasons stated below) | ||
| Line 869: | Line 866: | ||
===Strategies=== | ===Strategies=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|cancelled}} | ||
I noticed the Wiki doesn't really allow much strategies on here for boss battles for example. But I personally think it would be a good thing to have on here since if there are users who rely on the wiki as a guide for certain things (which I usually do), then it would be very helpful. The Kingdom Hearts Wiki has strategies on it so why not here? | I noticed the Wiki doesn't really allow much strategies on here for boss battles for example. But I personally think it would be a good thing to have on here since if there are users who rely on the wiki as a guide for certain things (which I usually do), then it would be very helpful. The Kingdom Hearts Wiki has strategies on it so why not here? | ||
| Line 891: | Line 888: | ||
===Merge all doctor versions of characters into their respective article (excluding Dr. Mario)=== | ===Merge all doctor versions of characters into their respective article (excluding Dr. Mario)=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|31-0|merge}} | ||
Currently, with the recent release of ''[[Dr. Mario World]]'' as well as recent information planning many more doctor variants of characters, I propose that we merge all doctor alter-egos into their respective articles. As it stands, there's going to be plenty of them, and having separate articles for all variants of each character is excessive and makes it difficult to navigate. It's also not like none of the information they have can't easily be stated in their respective articles under a respective ''Dr. Mario World'' header and adding necessary information to their respective stats pages. | Currently, with the recent release of ''[[Dr. Mario World]]'' as well as recent information planning many more doctor variants of characters, I propose that we merge all doctor alter-egos into their respective articles. As it stands, there's going to be plenty of them, and having separate articles for all variants of each character is excessive and makes it difficult to navigate. It's also not like none of the information they have can't easily be stated in their respective articles under a respective ''Dr. Mario World'' header and adding necessary information to their respective stats pages. | ||
Latest revision as of 09:09, June 4, 2024
Split Diddy Kong Pilot into Diddy Kong Pilot (2001) and Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)split 12-0 Proposer: Results May Vary (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsIs this really a good idea? We have all sorts of genre-jumping tech demos and such in the pre-release and unused content articles, after all. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:12, 15 January 2019 (EST)
Delete certain Game & Watch game articlesDelete 6-2 If this proposal passes, the following articles will be deleted: This would also prevent the currently-redlinked Dynamite Jack and The Wily Bomber articles from being made, as they are only characters who appear in these games. Proposer: Waluigi Time (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsI think we should review MarioWiki:Coverage but common sense tells me that those articles really aren't needed. @FanOfYoshi: Yes, work was put into them, but that's a moot point if they're not related to the Mario series. They shouldn't be merged either, as they have no place here. Someone could make an original write up of the entire history of Link in every Zelda game on his page, but it's not relevant to the Mario series so it would be removed regardless of the effort put in to make it. Besides, everything on this wiki is work, so how is this different than deleting, trimming, or rewriting any other article? --
Considering I was the one to tell Dwitney to make these, I should probably weigh in here. In MarioWiki:Coverage, the Game & Watch series is marked under two sections: Crossovers and Guest Appearances, both of which we cover. I suppose it could also fall under Package Deals, which we only cover the Mario aspects of. This was a bit of a confusing matter for me, and Flagman apparently appears in Wario Land II according to Doc von Schmeltwick. I think this is something we could cover, but if consensus is we shouldn't, Nintendo Wiki could use them, so they shouldn't be deleted immediately.
@1337star: Jetpac at least appears in what's more than basically a minigame compilation. Flagman, another Game & Watch game, also appears in Wario Land II and as a microgame in WarioWare: Touched!, and was exempt from this proposal for similar reasons. Personally, I don't think the Game & Watch games should be considered crossovers at all. What makes them more important than Nintendo Land, for example? --
Update the Manual of Style to strongly discourage abbreviations of game titles on mainspace articlesdo nothing 2-5-8 EDIT: Per several user's suggestions, I also included a Allow abbreviations if they are necessary for space or infoboxes or are more convenient and are not confusing such as Deluxe option as for example Donkey Konga 3: Tabehōdai! Haru Mogitate 50 Kyoku could be shorted to Donkey Konga 3 due to that abbreviation not being confusing, while for example New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe still will not be shorted to Deluxe due too potential confusion, and in this option some abbreviations would be allowed if necessary for space or infoboxes. Proposer: Doomhiker (talk) Fully restrict the use of abbreviations
Allow abbreviations if they are necessary for space or infoboxes or are more convenient and are not confusing while discouraging the use of confusing abbreviations such as Deluxe
Oppose
CommentsPlease note that the Game Boy Advance versions of the Donkey Kong Country games do not have subtitles. Therefore, when referring to them, they should just be Donkey Kong Country 2 and Donkey Kong Country 3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:27, 16 January 2019 (EST) While I'm not opposed to using the full titles, I don't think using abbreviations should be fully restricted, as there are often cases where titles have to be shortened, like a column for a table, or using the full title would be too lengthy, like in an infobox. Basically, how I've seen it is, "Don't shorten the title if you don't need to." Does this proposal also account for shortening the game names?
@FanOfYoshi this proposal is about strongly discouraging the use of abbreviations in the main content of mainspace pages, so if this proposal passes the use of abbreviations will decrease in mainspace articles, however abbreviations will still be allowed in discussions, in redirects, etc. Doomhiker (talk) Sorry, I just wanted to clarify before I vote for this, does this proposal only cover confusing or misleading abbreviations, such as New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe being shortened to Deluxe (Which I definitely support), or all titles in general? Because, as others have mentioned, sometimes it can be beneficial to shorten the title, and I think it would be alright to do so if it wouldn't be confusing or misleading, so shortening Donkey Konga 3: Tabehōdai! Haru Mogitate 50 Kyoku to Donkey Konga 3 if required to do so for space, as there is no other game it could easily be confused with. In limited-space situations, it'd likely be beneficial to drop the lengthy subtitle, as long as it isn't confusing or misleading. BBQ Turtle (talk) 12:09, 17 January 2019 (EST)
Delete Do the Donkey KongMerge the article 4-0 Proposer: Platform (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsThis should be a TPP, not a mainspace proposal, as it affects only one article.
Decide how to handle Donkey Kong Country 2 and Land 2 boss stagesSplit the boss stages, excluding Stronghold Showdown 3-11-0 However, there is one I'm not sure about: Stronghold Showdown. Unlike everything else, this really is the same thing in both games - a small castle room with a short cutscene where DK is seen tied up before being taken to the Flying Krock. While splitting it would be consistent with all of the other DKC2/DKL2 splits, it would also create two articles that are basically the same thing. The only game where Stronghold Showdown is actually different is the GBA version of DKC2, where Kerozene is added as a boss. Plus, we've already voted not to split the returning Super Mario 3D World levels in the Wii U version of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker for a similar reason. Proposer: 7feetunder (talk) Split the boss stages, including Stronghold Showdown
Split the boss stages, excluding Stronghold Showdown
Don't split the boss stagesCommentsSorry, my first vote was a mistake. I wanted to vote "including" as, if everything is going to be split, this might need a split as well. Should i restart a proposal if the "excluding" option passes? --
Standardize species as the main article for subjects sharing an identical "character" and "species" nameno change 6-3-9 I guess I must be the one to say it - I sincerely think it is unwise to allow this setup to permeate much longer as it will most certainly not be sustainable forever. The mission of this proposal is simply to set a wiki-wide organizational standard for all current and future articles that fit this criteria (a few obvious examples would be Toad and Yoshi, but this would also extend to others as well). All this will do is move the current main articles to a character identifier, and move those with a species identifier to the new main article. This proposal will not affect the content of these articles themselves, since I believe any attempt to do so (should it eventually happen) would best be done on a case-by-case basis; it will only affect the titles and links of these subjects. This will take a considerable chunk of time to comb over since this is something that should have been done from the start, but hindsight is 20/20. An exception will be made for any articles where the species distinction falls under other media. The only current example I'm aware of is Fryguy. Readers will generally be more familiar with the Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic or Super Mario Bros. 2 boss and The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! role over the Nintendo Comics System depiction, which are treated as a transformation of Toads in precisely one story with a quick explanation that was never fully elaborated upon. Fryguy himself is not even considered a proper member of the Fryguy species, as he has a different origin in the game. As such, the proposal will not apply to Fryguy or potentially similar cases. Update: As an alternative, I've included the option to have articles with character and species identifiers, and instead have the main article be a disambiguation page. This is the current situation with Luma. This is not as extensive as the proposal's main objective, but it allows both articles to exist on equal standing. Note that the above exception still applies. Under this scenario, an additional exception will be made for standard enemies such as Goomba and Amp, who already currently default to their species article and will most likely be searched as an enemy due to their common role. Proposer: LinkTheLefty (talk) Make species the main articles
Use disambiguation pages instead
Keep the current setup
Comments@Doc - A playable appearance doesn't automatically grant characterhood. Mario Kart Wii is your example - where, then, is the Dry Bones character article (ditto for virtually every other playable standard enemy in spinoffs)? If they are not notable enough, does that mean that Toad and Yoshi as characters mainly retain notability because of DiC? The characters are certainly not entirely apparent in the modern platformers, because the recent New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe shows that just about any Toad can play the generic role of "Toad" and the Super Mario 3D World Toad might actually be a relabeled Blue Toad. In terms of the more dialog/lore-heavy games like the RPGs, such characters barely exist - Square's Super Mario RPG might have a definitive Toad character, but everything since Paper Mario has greatly diminished him to the point where he barely exists and it's genuinely difficult to tell if the rare instances of singular "Toad" refer to the character or a generic. Even several games later in Paper Mario: Color Splash, where at last a single Toad accompanies Peach, I think the singular "Toad" is thrown around more often to generically refer to other NPCs who are obviously not the same Toad, not to mention there's the infamous "Toad #35". The primary issue is the general writing style of Nintendo translations (and it's not unique to the Mario franchise) and how they often blend singular word use to refer to species, character, or generic (partially due to inconsistent localization and partially due to the Mario world not being as defined early on). This has been going on for quite a while, too - Kamek will refer to any given Yoshi color as generic/singular "Yoshi" in the Yoshi games, Nintendo Power and Prima Games would regularly flip between character and species usage on the writer's whim (sometimes on the same page), etc. "When in doubt, it's the species" would be the safer approach not just because species have become more prevalent but also because it's something that is constant (meaning it may not always be "the" character, but it's always "the" species). Besides, the current setup doesn't even make a whole lot of internal sense - searching priority for "Toad" should tell the reader what exactly a "Toad" is, not what "Toad, the Toad" is. That might look perfectively presentable to some of us, but it's confusing to uninformed newcomers. And honestly, I think a "shift" (whether it's a major overhaul or something as minor as simply changing around a few article titles) is an inevitability sooner or later, so the question is whether to begin taking care of this now or keep putting it off until it becomes unmanageable. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:21, 28 January 2019 (EST)
@LinkTheLefty, can we delete the Green Yoshi article? I hate that one! It annoys me to see that thing exist. I'm out of words... the content in the Green Yoshi article should be merged with the Yoshi species article. MarioManiac1981 (talk) 22:51, 28 January 2019 (EST)
@Toadette - That's not the issue here; as stated, this proposal will absolutely not affect the content of the articles themselves and will thus preserve the history/legacy of these characters (hence the "character" identifier). The issue is that singular use in either species or generic contexts have become increasingly more common to the point where the original character is no longer certifiable and, for all intents and purposes, effectively phased out (Toad's "possible appearances" section could very easily be much larger if we were even mildly stricter about it). Over time, character has become secondary to species, plain and simple. We also continue to make certain assumptions based on both playability and the general mindset of "there's a generic member of the species standing there by itself minding its own business, so let's add it the main/character page" (one example would be Yoshi in Paper Mario: Color Splash, but there's many more). Overall, I think having the character pages as the wiki default contributes a lot to this unnecessary bloat, gives a false impression that a single recurring character is officially still in direct use today, and is a roadblock for discussion. I don't see any benefit to leaving it as-is when the signs are blatant. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:45, 29 January 2019 (EST)
@BBQ Turtle - Claiming that his jacket's unique is probably the joke. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:30, 29 January 2019 (EST)
Well, the Toad quote is:
He says that if you're looking for him you have to look for the blue jacket. Making the playable one with that color so you could recognize him among the many makes sense, but you need to remember that this is the standard appearance of Toads since the very beginning, before the concept of a Toad character was even a thing. And as LinktheLefty noticed, this remained the standard appearance of Toads. Even Super Mario Odyssey confirms this is still true. Of course playable characters need to stand out, but that doesn't mean that the appearance isn't the standard one, just that in those game they need to use the other color variants not to create confusion among the players.--Mister Wu (talk) 20:15, 29 January 2019 (EST)
Bring Back Fake Reminders and Warningsdon't bring back 1-17 Proposer: Mari0fan100 (talk) Support
Oppose
Comments(you forgot oppose and comments) -- @Baby Luigi, you might want to look at this. That warning sounds funny to me, and it was used for a fun purpose. Under no circumstances do I call that inappropriate. Mari0fan100 (talk) 21:57, 2 March 2019 (EST)
Ban certain cases of future tense from the wikiban 20-1 When this wiki deals with a subject from an upcoming game or update, it's very common to see phrases such as "set to appear" or "will appear in said game or update". This kind of wording easily becomes obsolete once the game/update goes live. While some cases are promptly corrected, others remain unchanged for a long time. This instance, for example, had been forgotten for months since before the release of Mario Tennis Aces simply because it was too obscure. I propose the Manual of Style to be updated to forbid explicit statements that a subject will appear in a future media, on grounds that simply stating the same thing in present tense ("[subject] appears in [upcoming game]") is fine enough to use and doesn't risk becoming out of date (except in extremely rare cases, where the subject it removed from the game or the game gets cancelled). It's actually more correct to state it this way, since any trailer or gameplay of an unreleased game presents elements that have already been incorporated into it and are thus presently in the game. We may then avoid situations like this one where the subject is literally hours from going live at the time of this proposal. However, not all future wording would be affected by this proposal. Lead paragraphs that refer to a game as "upcoming" are free to stay, as this is the most simple way to state that the game is not released yet, on top of being likely more visible and easy to update than an obscure sentence on a particular page. So, cases like "Super Mario Maker 2 is an upcoming 2D platforming and level-editing game" will stay this way until release, even if the proposal passes. Proposer: Bye Guy (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsWhy are we banning it? I would prefer we discourage rather than banning. Should i make a counterproposal four weeks after the proposal's deadline? --
Thing is, that's what the {{upcoming}} and {{new subject}} templates are for. They highlight upcoming or recently released games/subjects, which get categorized to look through. It's a simple category to look through and update, and if we have to edit the page to remove the template when it's time to do so, might as well change the tenses, and the MarioWiki:Upcoming_content#Revision already encourages things to be written in a present tense in this way. Merge Assist Trophies that have made minor appearances in the Mario franchisemerge 11-0 After the merge for almost all of the categories listed in the linked proposal, there were a handful of pages that were left over, a number of them being Assist Trophies. The reason for this seems to be that they've made some sort of appearance in the Mario games, be it appearances as Mystery Mushroom costumes in Super Mario Maker and cameos in WarioWare microgames. However, when you think about the fact that Mystery Mushroom costumes like Babymetal and microgame characters (both non-playable and playable, e.g. the Empress Bulbax or the Urban Champion fighter) don't have their own articles - which was part of the reason Arcade Bunny was deleted - their still being separate doesn't quite make sense. We've already decided to merge the Assist Trophies, and minor appearances like these in any kind of Mario-related media alone don't warrant separate articles. There have been a few that have already been picked off individually (adding to the inconsistency), including Midna's page; using that as a precedent, it's time we finish this in one fell swoop. For the sake of going with the original plan of enacting the changes to our Smash coverage one step at a time, I'm only focusing on the Assist Trophy characters in this proposal instead of every non-Mario subject that may have articles out there, with one exception I found was similar enough to include (see below). Affected pages:
Proposer: Mario jc (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsI originally wanted to include Balloon Fighter as another exception; however, seeing as he's playable in a number of microgames in addition to a full-length minigame, this could be open to even greater debate that I think would be best handled separately. If anyone finds any more pages that can be added to the list, please let me know. @Doomhiker: As mentioned in the proposal, Blinky already has his own page. --
Remove information about Captain N: The Game Master + Captain Rainbow from non-Mario subjectskeep all information 1-1-3-0-0-5 This feels strange and outside the scope of our wiki, and doesn't make sense when Captain N's only relevance to the Mario franchise is that Donkey Kong and a few Donkey Kong Jr. enemies appear in a few episodes, along with the usage of Warp Zones. It's also inconsistent with how we cover other guest appearances; Densetsu no Starfy 3 is considered a guest appearance, but we no longer have an article on Starfy following our shift in Smash coverage. Nintendo Land and Nintendo Badge Arcade don't mention appearances of characters from other franchises on their articles. I did find two other exceptions; Little Mac and Takamaru's articles both mention their appearance in Captain Rainbow. Little Mac's article also mentions his playable appearance in Punch-Out!!, but that's kind of iffy in my opinion and should be saved for another time. Therefore, I propose that coverage of Captain N: The Game Master and Captain Rainbow for subjects not originating in the Mario franchise be removed. This would potentially affect the following pages:
My apologies if this is confusing, I've accidentally made a sort of tangled mess here. Leave any questions in the comments and I'll be glad to sort them out. Proposer: Waluigi Time (talk) Option 1: Remove all Captain N and Captain Rainbow information
Option 2: Remove Captain N information for characters that do not interact with Mario elements and Captain Rainbow information
Option 3: Just remove Captain N information for characters that do not interact with Mario elements
Option 4: Just remove all Captain N informationOption 5: Just remove Captain Rainbow informationOption 6: Do nothing
Commentsfyi, even if this pass, I would strongy recommend against removing the Captain N info from the pages about the show's core cast (which is to say, Simon Pit and Mega Man) and Dr. Wily since they all interract with Donkey Kong at some point. Infact, one of the show's episode is about Simon Belmont getting knocked on the head, wake up thinking he's Donkey Kong Jr. and going out to find his "father". So yeah, bad idea. --Glowsquid (talk) 13:49, March 16, 2019 (EDT) Per requests, I have changed the proposal to add an option to keep information about the characters who interact with Mario-related elements in the show. --
Super Mario Galaxy / Super Mario Galaxy 2 fiery counterpartsdo nothing 6-2-9
Proposer: Toadette the Achiever (talk) Option A
Option B
Option C
CommentsWhile I'm not sure how to vote on this proposal quite yet, I'd like to point out that the mission name for the second King Kaliente battle is King Kaliente's Spicy Return. This seems to imply that King Kaliente is indeed the same character in both galaxies. --
Does the scorched Kaliente have its own JP name in any official source? The English mission name indicate's it's the same entity, while it is unlikely at best that Fiery Dino Piranha is the same entity as its counterpart. The JP mission title doesn't seem to indicate either way, does Jr.'s JP dialog or anything from a JP official guide specify? Additionally, the only behavioral difference seems to be he gets more aggressive faster (ie a typical recurring boss thing), with every other difference being from the environment (meteors, sinking platforms, etc). I'd support merging the Hisstocrats and leaving the SMG bosses as-is due to this, as it seems far more in-line with that than with Gobblegut. An incendiary exponent is much different from "goes raagh faster in a different place." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:16, March 19, 2019 (EDT)
@Mister Wu Does the little blurb paint them as separate entities? How about the JP version of the game itself? Anyways, that's a color identifier, which the guide also uses (inconsistently) with color-varying enemies (which also tend to get their own artwork). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:03, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
I know that Prima Guides aren't the go-to for naming, but if it helps in any sense, the Prima Guide for Super Mario Galaxy 2 simply refers to the fiery Gobblegut as "a fired-up version of Gobblegut". The wording would suggest that this is the same Gobblegut, but again, it's a Prima guide. Not sure how far we should run with that.
Change the source priority exception to a more case-by-case basiscanceled by proposer Proposer: FanOfYoshi (talk) Make a more case-by-case basis (Determine each case individually)Stop having internal filenames as a priority over guide namesKeep the current setup (Errr, current setup is perfectly fine)CommentsThis isn't an April Fools joke, right?
I'm not sure why more case-by-case basis (something I agree with, since the text of the original proposal is generic and thus can't be used right away without a discussion first, in my opinion) is used in the context of what seems more a stop making exception for internal filenames, the scope of which (all or certain?) isn't even clear.--Mister Wu (talk) 09:56, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
Either restrict usage of or don't use NTSC or PAL on articlesUse NTSC or PAL only for articles that relate to the older home consoles, while using the British or American English terminology for handheld consoles, the Wii U and the Nintendo Switch 7-9-1 First of all, NTSC and PAL would really only apply for the older (analog) TV sets back in the day. Newer HDTVs don't really use the analog NTSC or PAL video standards anymore, instead going for digital standards like ATSC, ISDB or DTMB, for example. Second of all, NTSC and PAL are mainly used to denote which video standard is used for TVs, not so much for video games (except for rare cases in which the content is exactly the same as the American version, where the only difference is game speed thanks to the PAL format in question). Not only that, but several people are still insisting on using NTSC and PAL for certain cases when it really wouldn't make sense (for example, this revision of the Shifty Shrine article). This needs to change. I'm proposing to replace either any or most instances of "NTSC" or "PAL" for video game regional differences with "American English" or "British English" whenever mentioned in articles. My reasons as for why are as follows:
I foresee so many ways this proposal could go in these two weeks so I'm adding multiple options. These options could be the one with the most votes at the end instead of just one, so they are there just in case. If you guys have any suggestions for other options before the end of the first week, then that would be great. The currently available options at the moment are the following:
Proposer: Owencrazyboy9 (talk) Option 1: Use the American English and British English terminology wherever possible
Option 2: Use NTSC or PAL only for articles that relate to the older home consoles (NES, SNES, N64, GCN and Wii) / Use the British or American English terminology for handheld consoles, the Wii U and the Switch
Option 3: Do absolutely nothing
CommentsFrom what I've seen, people don't say that they're "NTSC" or "PAL," but say "NTSC region" or "PAL region," which works as a shorthand way of denoting the regional split where differences tend to crop up. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:43, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
I don't really see a need for this proposal, personally. If there's inaccurate terminology being used on the wiki, it should be fixed on a case-by-case basis. I'm sure there's cases where NTSC/PAL is accurate, cases where American/British English is accurate, and cases where neither phrasing would be accurate and something else would need to be used. -- 1337star (Mailbox SP) 13:21, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
@FanofYoshi: No, it's not perfectly fine. NTSC and PAL themselves are basically no longer accurate to today's current advancements of technology. The Wii U and Switch use an HDMI connection, which uses digital connections, not analog. Portable systems, like the Game Boy and 3DS, don't really use NTSC or PAL connections, because they are...well portable. Older home consoles do use NTSC or PAL analog connections, though. – Owencrazyboy9 (talk) 13:45, March 26, 2019 (EDT)
Recreate the numbered Mario Kart redirectsrestore redirects 13-0 All the reasons given on the support side of that linked proposal are flawed. To quote my vote in that proposal: "According to MarioWiki:Redirects, "If there's even a small chance that a redirect will help someone, it's not useless." And while there may only be one person in the world who calls them that, that's more then zero; hence, they're not useless." That point still stands up today, and in fact, our current redirect policy, in bold text even, says, "There is no need to delete alternate name, conjectural, or spelling-mistake redirects unless they are specifically too silly or too general." It really couldn't be more clear than that. I don't know how that proposal passed by such a wide margin, or why no one's attempted to overturn it since, but it's time to right this wrong that's haunted me for eighteen months. Proposer: YoshiFlutterJump (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsThere has to be some sort of notability line we draw when it comes to making redirects. Otherwise you can use that "redirects are never useless" argument to justify all sorts of names like Mayro Kratt and Luggy. Who actually calls Mario Kart Double Dash by its numerical order on the franchise? Common sense is applied here, and I don't see the rationale for making numerical redirects convincing and they do not establish what sort of line we draw on redirects. Rather, it just seems this proposal is just "create redirects because we can".
I guess that is a counterproposal? --
Wouldn't these numbered redirects fall under being too general though? SmokedChili (talk) 04:16, May 11, 2019 (EDT)
"this travesty"
Just to clarify, what is the list of redirects you'd like to make and what would be the source for that list? Even though I have an idea for both the answers, I think having them explicitly given is very important for this proposal.--Mister Wu (talk) 22:20, May 11, 2019 (EDT)
Decide on a phrase to describe crossover appearances with the Mario franchise"Mario-related media" 0-0-1-1-12-1
And, the guest star of the show:
Feel free to add any other options that you can think of below. A rather minor proposal, I know, but it's small changes like these that make a difference! Or not. Maybe I'm just an organizational maniac. Proposer: Bye Guy (talk) Crossover installmentsMario crossoversMario franchise crossovers
Crossovers with the Mario franchise
Do nothing
CommentsWould "Mario-related media" work as an option?
keep 1-10 Proposer: TheDarkStar (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsInteresting scenario. I'm not too sure how to proceed either. -- Exactly what templates do you think should be effected by this? Additional note: The "category in template form" thing was made because a loooooooong time ago, there were nav templates on here for things like fire creatures and birds. I remember those days. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:40, June 7, 2019 (EDT) @TDA I am pretty sure that Template:Octoombas was split into "characters" and "species" navigation, due to the Octoomba bosses. Doomhiker (talk) Create articles on Play Nintendo gamescreate 12-0 Proposer: Obsessive Mario Fan (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsThis edit is what made me wonder if the articles are really necessary. --DeepFriedCabbage 22:14, June 16, 2019 (EDT) Looks like lots of users agree. I already started working on these articles, anyway. --DeepFriedCabbage 17:04, June 22, 2019 (EDT) Merge at least some of Bowser's formsmerge everything except Meowser 0-18-0
Proposer: Toadette the Achiever (talk) Merge everythingMerge everything except Meowser
Do nothingComments@FanOfYoshi: I don't see your point about consistency. Fire Gobblegut and Pink Hisstocrat are different entities from their standard counterparts. Meowser and Fire King Kaliente (afaik) are not. The reason that Meowser should stay is because he has an entirely different attack pattern from both standard Bowser and Cat Mario, and he is also more significant than the other forms of Bowser. -YFJ (talk · edits) 12:30, June 30, 2019 (EDT) Aside from these, I'd also like to point out Metal Bowser also has his own page which seems unnecessary. -- Strategiescanceled by proposer Proposer:Mario Sakuraba (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsMerge all doctor versions of characters into their respective article (excluding Dr. Mario)merge 31-0 Of course, Dr. Mario himself is an exception to this rule, solely because he has appeared as a separate character from Mario in the Super Smash Bros. series (and a weird obscure Kondansha's Mario manga) and considering his veteran status of appearing in multiple games of a series even named after himself, I think it's better off his page remains the way it is. Articles affected:
Proposer: Baby Luigi (talk) Support
OpposeComments@HEROMARIO: No, they're not different characters - the opening scene after Stage 10 literally has Peach and Bowser throw on doctor clothing to help Mario stop the virus outbreak in the Mushroom Kingdom. Secondly, their stats are different? Every single Mario spin-off game has each character go through slightly different statistics each game, so that argument is also not valid at all. – Owencrazyboy9 (talk) 16:26, July 10, 2019 (EDT)
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