Talk:Golden Mushroom (crownless)

Merge with Gold Mushroom

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Friday, November 15, 2024, 06:18 GMT

Merging this and Gold Mushroom would be nice for consistency, as there are items in this franchise that have had varying appearances (which is seemingly the only reason the articles are separate) that are under the same article. Removing the (crownless) in the title would probably be best as well, as the crowned variant uses a different name. A disambiguation link is enough to distinguish the two.

If this proposal passes, the Gold Mushroom article would be deleted and merged into this one. I've got a mockup article in my sandbox if this proposal passes and goes into effect.

Proposer: OmegaRuby (talk)
Deadline: February 20, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. OmegaRuby (talk) Per proposal.
2. Hewer (talk) Per proposal, the distinction between these two based solely on colour differences that are so negligible they could easily be stylistic variation feels pretty arbitrary (I've actually been meaning to propose this for two years but could never be bothered)
3. Swallow (talk) Per proposal.
4. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per all. At this point it's kind of silly (and confusing) that we're keeping these separate. You can argue all you want about differing function, but as far as design goes, the two are totally similar enough to merge.
5. Camwoodstock (talk) - Per all. As it stands, we have 3 distinct Gold Mushroom articles. We understand the Gold Dash Mushroom being split (it has a consistent purpose and has had a crown since MKWii), but these two non-crowned versions really needed to be merged awhile ago. It's not like this Golden Mushroom and the other Golden Mushroom have had 100% consistent uses either way; across these two articles, Gold Mushrooms are replacements for 1-ups, replacements for coins, stat boosters, stand-ins for other items, health recovery items, and... whatever the use it has in Super Nintendo World is.
6. Nintenboi1 (talk) Per all. They might not be the same functionally, but I don't think that's nearly good enough a reason to keep them separate considering how similar the designs are. Besides, this isn't the only item to vary in function between different games and appearances (The Poison Mushroom comes to mind in this regard)
7. DrippingYellow (talk) Per all. Besides, aren't "golden" and "gold" literally synonyms?
8. Biggestman (talk) They are literally the same thing. These being separate pages hurts me on an emotional level. Per all.
9. PrincessPeachFan (talk) Never really understood why they were split.
10. JanMisali (talk) Per all.
11. Tails777 (talk) Per all.

Oppose

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - If the (very different in functional concept) SNW item was meant to be the same as the NSMB2 item, why make a new render in the first place?
2. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per Doc von Schmeltwick.

Comments

@Doc: How is that more unlikely than the SNW mushroom being the MP2 one (different shape) or the M&L one (different spot colour)? And why did they make new SNW renders for Yoshi Eggs and Bowser Jr.? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:42, February 6, 2024 (EST)

This page is more a "the rest" in comparison to the NSMB2-based one being intended as a distinct recurring item. As for the other SNW ones, that's not really comparable as those still used the same base model and textures (plus Yoshi Egg spot color and pattern varies anyway) unlike the mushes, and of course Jr.'s gonna have a new one, he's a character with things like limbs that need positioned. I also want to point out my original proposal to split the dumping ground that was the original "Golden Mushroom" page. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:45, February 6, 2024 (EST)

Key Coin's another object that got SNW artwork, I don't think that's a good point to hinge your argument on (also, wouldn't these two mushrooms have the same "base model" anyway?). And I question why "the rest" needs splitting from the supposedly intended recurring item. Appearance doesn't work because this one's appearance is all over the place, same goes for the Gold/Golden naming difference and the function. And I've been wanting this merge since not long after that proposal happened, I still agree with the other two splits but this one seems a lot more arbitrary and speculative. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:12, February 6, 2024 (EST)

While we're here, there's also the Grand Gold Mushroom from Puzzle & Dragons: Super Mario Bros. Edition--yet another version of the Gold Mushroom, which is currently missing from the disambiguation. We assume it won't be included in this merge, but we'd like to keep it on record that it exists at all. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 16:36, February 6, 2024 (EST)

I never really understood why the pages were split. Nintendo never really treated these as interchangeable from regular Golden Mushrooms in the first place. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:55, February 7, 2024 (EST)

I want to point out that they are both currently in-use names and designs... meaning if they are merged, the page will need moved back-and-forth for every instance of the other appearing. Anyways, if this does get merged, I'll consider that proper precedence to pursue merging Big Mushroom and Mega Mushroom, since they're more similar than these are. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:12, February 14, 2024 (EST)

We mean, there's been a few things that have had different names used concurrently with one another, and nobody seems to bat an eye at one being determined as the "main" one. Dash Mushrooms are occasionally just called ordinary Mushrooms, but nobody's exactly clamoring to either re-name that article to "Mushroom (Mario Kart series)" or re-merge it to Mushroom every time they do that. The only real question is what name to consider as the "current" name, since Gold Mushroom appears more, but Golden Mushroom appeared more recently. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 01:19, February 14, 2024 (EST)

Not to mention how to gauge recency for a theme park attraction that will probably go through revamps over time. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:47, February 14, 2024 (EST)

Not trying to change the topic, but following up on the first comment in-thread; isn't there a way to just turn Gold Mushroom into a redirect for the merged page? Would be much easier than manually going in. Additionally, merging Big and Mega Mushroom would be appropriate and consistent with this proposal. --OmegaRuby (talk) 09:09, February 14, 2024 (EST)

honestly not to get too far ahead but either the MP4 mega mushroom needs to be split from that article and the gold(en) mushrooms can stay split, or those should be merged and the gold(en) mushrooms should be merged as well for consistency's sake ~Camwoodstock (talk) 10:11, February 14, 2024 (EST)

The main reason I support a merge is because saying that these are all the same item feels somewhat less speculative than deciding that the M&L Superstar Saga one is more related to Super Nintendo World than New Super Mario Bros. 2. Where the line is drawn just feels arbitrary (naming is a bad argument because this article literally starts with "Golden Mushrooms, also known as Gold Mushrooms"), and keeping it all on one page feels like a neater solution than the alternative of splitting everything on this page. I don't really get the Big Mushroom comparison and would definitely oppose that merge, it feels much more wildly speculative given both of those mushrooms have consistent different designs that aren't just negligible colour differences, and they've also never shared a name to my knowledge. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:21, February 14, 2024 (EST)

The Japanese names both started with Deka Kinoko, their design has always been a large-sized Super Mushroom derivative, and their effect is to make Mario giant and able to bust through blocks. The rest of the effects of what is already on the Mega Mushroom page also vary, so the addition of only being in the SMB style and also making enemies look funny isn't that much of a deal-breaker (besides, we count the giant pixely Mario in Super Paper Mario as being Mega Mario...), especially since a recent attempt to split the Mega Mushroom page failed and the idea of this proposal is to merge a rare artifact that raises HP and BP to a more common item that grants a coin bonus. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:37, February 14, 2024 (EST)

We've also merged the Super Mushrooms into one article regardless of vastly different functions across different series (being second-in-line of healing mushrooms in RPGs and the most basic powerup in platformers). For the Gold Mushrooms, coin bonus and healing HP and BP is another vastly different effect between two series and if we merged the Super Mushrooms for that just fine, we can certainly do the same here. Super Crown is yet another case in point; in NSMBUDX it's a powerup that caused one of the worst internet trends I have endured, and in Captain Toad Treasure Tracker it's an end-of-level collectible like the Power Stars, and we certainly aren't going to split those. Nightwicked Bowser 19:52, February 14, 2024 (EST)

Fair enough. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:26, February 14, 2024 (EST)