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MarioWiki:Proposals

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Revision as of 11:54, October 3, 2017 by Shoey (talk | contribs) (sorry tt)
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Saturday, November 16th, 16:41 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. While only autoconfirmed users can comment on proposals, anyone is free to comment on talk page proposals.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  8. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  9. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use the {{proposal check}} tool to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  12. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks (at the earliest).
  13. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  14. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  15. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first six days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  16. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  17. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  18. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  19. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 14 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "November 16, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as for proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by the additional rules below:
  3. The talk page proposal must pertain to the subject page of the talk page it is posted on.
  4. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic-link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split articles for the alternate-named reskins from All Night Nippon: Super Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 3, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Split Banana Peel from Banana, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2024)
Merge Spiked Thwomp with Thwomp, Blinker (ended November 2, 2024)
Split Cursed Mushroom from Poison Mushroom, Pseudo (ended November 12, 2024)
Merge specified orbs with item counterparts from prior games, Pseudo (ended November 14, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)

List of talk page proposals

Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

Delete the "List of bonuses for SSB" pages

This proposal centers on two pages: List of bonuses in Super Smash Bros. and List of bonuses in Super Smash Bros. Melee.

When it comes to the pages centered around the Super Smash Bros. series, there's an unwritten compromise between this wiki and the SmashWiki: we do not cover the same information in the same way. This is evident from the different philosophies each wiki takes, for example with the Super Mario Wiki only covering fan content if it is significantly notable or has been acknowledged by Nintendo and the SmashWiki regularly covering every small-scale tournament and professional player, but it extends to each individual article as well. Take any random article and you'll see that the SmashWiki is far more detailed about the technical information, whereas the Super Mario Wiki presents the information in a more streamlined (and accessible) manner. This is the way things are, and this is the way things'll be for the forseeable future. However, this compromise only works if the information is truly being covered differently, and the two lists that are involved in this proposal fully break that.

These lists are nothing more than us writing down the information that is already present in-game, with little to no additions on our part. It's necessary to supply the means of unlocking each bonus, sure, but when every bonus can only be obtained in one way, there are only so many ways you can uniquely write about it without lapsing into poor writing. There's no additional flourishes in-game, either, so the most we can do is present it in plain text. Here's the rub: that's exactly how the SmashWiki is presenting this, and there's no other way they could present it. There's an impassable level of redundancy here, and since there's no way around it, I'd much rather that we delegate to the wiki dedicated to the series. Even when it comes to the pages on trophies, at the very least, every series' trophies are split into individual pages on the SmashWiki, whereas this wiki lumps every game's trophies into one article (for each game). Splitting the trophies by series and by game helps with navigation, while having the bonuses on separate pages here only spreads thin the little information that exists. It's not like there's a high demand for the pages on this wiki, if the What Links Here pages for each of the pages is any indication. On the very few moments, should they ever exist, that it is necessary to bring up the templates, all we need to do is link to the SmashWiki, and nothing would be different or loss. As it stands, all we're doing is violating MarioWiki:Once and only once across multiple wikis. The other articles can stand on their own due to the numerous differences between them and their SmashWiki counterparts, but the lists of bonuses have no such luxury.

Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: October 8, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Time Turner (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

  1. Baby Luigi (talk) According to MarioWiki: Coverage, we get full coverage of the Super Smash Bros. games, and considering that these bonuses ARE part of unlocks of the Super Smash Bros. series, especially Super Smash Bros. Melee since you need to unlock ALL of them to receive an unlockable item, I don't see the harm of keeping them in. Furthermore, unlike Smash Wiki, the bonuses here are a basic part of the game that any lay player can easily access and view under the respective options menu or part of a strategy guide so technically, these bonuses aren't any more technical than having articles on the various special moves characters have. Are you also going to advocate the deletion of List of Super Smash Bros. Brawl music and the sequel's music lists, since THAT article has pretty much everything you want to be deleted in it, down to it "being redundant" with SmashWiki. Your argument about "writing stuff that is about stuff in-game" is very weak, many of our stats articles strictly concerning Mario games, especially those concerning collectable content are nothing more than a list or a bestiary: having a list is convenient for readers to read rather than needing to boot up the game and read about it there, and it applies to these articles as well. I think the standards your setting up are a bit too arbitrary for my tastes, and I think considering how we cover every other Smash aspect fully, deleting just these pages would have a breach and hole in coverage. I also think the argument for not dealing with the trophy pages is rather weak too: the only thing keeping us and SmashWiki different in our trophy coverage is pretty much only the split in articles, and it's partly due to how they choose to organize their information there rather than how we do it. I also don't feel the Once and only once argument is a strong argument to apply to multiple coverages, since that's not its intended use: we have a DK Wiki yet most of their information there is redundant with ours and it's also the reason it's not as active as here, plus, we even have two NIWA Pikmin-themed wikis to begin with. Tbh, I'm not comfortable with the passage of this proposal without rewriting the Coverage guideline, since as now, it currently allows this as it is and this proposal clearly breaches it.
  2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) Per Baby Luigi
  3. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Per Baby Luigi.
  4. Alex95 (talk) - I see no reason to delete them. Besides, it does tie into the Mario universe: "Luigi KO". Now, if this was plagiarized from the Smash Wiki, then there would be significant reason to remove this, but otherwise, per Baby Luigi.
  5. Chester Alan Arthur (talk) per baby luigi

Comments

@BL: There's a flaw in your argument: this wiki isn't currently covering literally every aspect of the Smash games. The Smash Taunt characters all share one page, as do the various stage elements and enemies from each stage. Would you rather that all of them have individual pages? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 15:13, 1 October 2017 (EDT)

Of course I'm not advocating covering literally every aspect of Smash game. I'm arguing that the list of bonuses articles are significant enough to the Smash series to warrant an article here, to the point where an unlockable in Super Smash Bros. Melee is tied to it.  Ray Trace(T|C) 15:16, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
That unlockable being a single trophy that otherwise does nothing but look pretty. Also, considering how few articles link to it, and considering that beyond that single trophy, the bonuses only exist for the purposes of score attack in a single mode that is far from the game's focus, I'm going to argue that the bonuses are not significant to the series. If they're so signficant, why were they mostly ignored in Brawl and discluded entirely in Sm4sh? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 15:21, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
Your argument of "Doing nothing but look pretty" is a flimsy, subjective argument. In video games, collectables are always treated like a big deal, even if they're just digital images with text in them, and there's a reason game developers hide these types of things behind rewards. Regardless of how important it is to you subjectively, it has significant value regardless, to the point where it is considered a collectible especially in Super Smash Bros. Melee where you need to "collect" those bonuses to receive something. Maybe they're not important to the series as a whole, but I still say they're important enough to receive an article listing them in the respective games they appear in, pering my previous comments in my opposition.  Ray Trace(T|C) 15:31, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
I would argue, in turn, that your overly flowery and exagerated praising is equally subjective. There are 293 trophies in Melee alone; arguing that a single trophy that doesn't even have its own article is enough to support two articles is just taking things too far. Why does it matter how much time the devs spent on the trophies, anyways? I'm sure somebody spent plenty of time writing and drawing out the treasures in Wario: Master of Disguise, but that really doesn't mean anything. We're not going to give individual articles to them any time soon. Besides that, your argument supports giving pages for the trophies, but it means nothing for anything that involves unlocking the trophies, which is separate from the trophies themselves (the list of trophies pages don't even mention how they can be unlocked). The bonuses and trophies are entirely relevant apart from a single trophy being unlocked by them. Also, that argument is meaningless for the list of bonuses from the first game, which do not serve a greater purpose at any point. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 15:46, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
I've talked about how the game makes a deal out of it, mostly because it does, something you can't ignore, and it even keeps a menu dedicated to this stuff in Melee. Official guides also list it as well, if they are there. The collectible articles of anything do exactly the same thing, except it's with gameplay mechanics and bonuses from Super Smash Bros. games. The only reason I brought up the Diskun trophy is because it's an unlockable linked to the collection of these items, so therefore, these bonuses fit the criteria of being a collectible item in the same way trophies are. The same thing applies to list of Super Smash Bros. bonuses, though to a lesser extent. In the end, unlike stuff like wave-dashing or L-canceling or the specifics that SmashWiki talks about, these bonuses are easily accessible to anyone and everyone playing the game. They're gameplay collectibles in the same way the trophies are, and thus, should be kept here in MarioWiki. Furthermore, when you brought up how these Smash Taunt characters are merged into one page, they're still there. Here, you're advocating complete removal of this information on MarioWiki, which is a different situation altogether.  Ray Trace(T|C) 16:00, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
It's only a single section of the menu. It's no more prominent than the options menu. Regardless of the game's trophy theming, the bulk of the trophies themselves can be easily ignored. Regardless, we're talking about the bonuses, which are buried within the menu, sandwiched between other statistics who are given equally low prominence yet are not given separate articles here. Even by the game's standards, the bonuses are not a signficant part of the game, especially to the point where it needs to be covered in exactly the same way as another wiki. And again, this completely disregards the first game, in which the bonuses are not kept track of in any way whatsoever, including the end score. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 16:15, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
Sorry, but "it's only a single ssection" also seems subjective. Plus, aren't there bonus lists that you need to deal with too?   (T|C) 08:12, 2 October 2017 (EDT)
"a single section" in that it encompasses one list of text and nothing more. I also do not know what you're referring to by "bonus lists" beyond what's already been discussed. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 13:40, 2 October 2017 (EDT)

Changes

None at the moment.

Miscellaneous

Colons in navigation templates

Here's a simple problem: when it comes to navigation templates for games, some of them include a colon in their name (such as Template:ML:SS and Template:MP:IT) and others do not (such as Template:PMTTYD and Template:LMDM). Unlike my previous proposal about nav templates, this one's more of an issue: it is incredibly annoying for editors when they have to guess whether or not the template they're adding in has a colon or whether the new template they're making should have one in its title. Leaving things as they are just makes things confusingly inconsistent. Given that there's no rhyme or reason for the inconsistency, it'd be best for this to be settled for prevent any further inconvenience. There are two options for tackling this: applying a colon to every nav template that lacks it (assuming the game it's covering has a colon in its name, naturally), and removing a colon from every template that has it. I'd personally advocate not having them in the titles: though it's a part of the game's name, it doesn't convey any information that would help editors recognize the name, making it effectively wasted space. Since these templates will be constantly used by editors, it also helps to compactify them in any way we can. I also highly doubt that there will ever be a case in the future where the acronyms of two games can only be distinguished by the colon in one of their names. It also doesn't hurt that the majority of the (applicable) templates alreadny don't have a colon in their titles.

Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: October 8, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Apply colons to the necessary templates

  1. Yoshi the SSM (talk) This is my preferred option due to them being in series, but even if the other option passes, consistency will be formed. Basically, per proposal.
  2. Alex95 (talk) - This is my preferred option, but I wouldn't mind it either way. Colons are meant to signify subtitles in the game names, so the abbreviations should be no different.

Remove colons from the necessary templates

  1. Time Turner (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) This makes the most sense.
  3. Ultimate Mr. L (talk) It's just better if the colon is left out altogether, since not all games have them.
  4. LuigiMaster123 (talk) It's a very small change, but I think it would look a lot better. Per all.
  5. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Eh, I don't see the harm in this. Per all.
  6. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.
  7. Niiue (talk) Per all.
  8. Yoshi the SSM (talk) Per all.
  9. Owencrazyboy9 (talk) My preferred choice. Most games on the cover don't have a colon if they have a subtitle, so it makes sense to me. Per all.

Do nothing

Comments

I can see why there is no colon... for a majority of these without colons. There like one time instances, thus why a colon for these. Exceptions, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Paper Mario, and Wario Ware. The 2 Mario Kart are different from the series. Right now, I can see myself going for any of the three options.   Yoshi the SSM (talk) 16:49, 1 October 2017 (EDT)

A majority of the templates without colons encompass your exceptions. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 16:53, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
True. It must have consistency. I'll vote for both.   Yoshi the SSM (talk) 08:59, 2 October 2017 (EDT)
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