MarioWiki:Proposals

Current time: Thursday, November 14th, 18:05 GMT

Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken. Voting periods last for two weeks. Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!"). All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options. For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
2. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. While only autoconfirmed users can comment on proposals, anyone is free to comment on talk page proposals.
3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
   • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
   • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
8. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
9. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use the {{proposal check}} tool to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
12. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks (at the earliest).
13. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
14. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
15. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first six days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
16. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
17. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
18. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
19. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

---

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 14 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "November 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

---

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as for proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by the additional rules below:
3. The talk page proposal must pertain to the subject page of the talk page it is posted on.
4. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

• Merge Orbs that share names with pre-existing Mario Party series items with those items (discuss) Deadline: November 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Create a number of articles for special buildings in Super Mario Run (discuss) Deadline: November 15, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Consider Deep Cheeps' appearance in the Super Mario Maker series a design cameo rather than a full appearance (without Blurps being affected) (discuss) Deadline: November 15, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Mushroom, Dash Mushroom, and most of Super Mushroom (discuss) Deadline: November 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Expand and rename List of characters by game (discuss) Deadline: November 20, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Decide whether to create articles for Ashita ni Nattara and Banana Tengoku and/or include them on List of Donkey Kong Country (television series) songs (discuss) Deadline: November 23, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)

Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)

^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.

Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)

Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)

Use the classic and classic-link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)

Split articles for the alternate-named reskins from All Night Nippon: Super Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 3, 2024)

Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)

Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)

Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)

Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)

Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)

^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)

Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)

Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)

Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)

Split Banana Peel from Banana, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2024)

Merge Spiked Thwomp with Thwomp, Blinker (ended November 2, 2024)

Split Cursed Mushroom from Poison Mushroom, Pseudo (ended November 12, 2024)

Unimplemented proposals

#	Proposal	User	Date
1	Create boss level articles for Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong Land series	Aokage (talk)	January 3, 2015
2	Create a template for the Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door badge drop rates	Lord Bowser (talk)	August 17, 2016
3	Clean up species categories to only include non-hostile species	Niiue (talk)	August 8, 2017
4	Clean up Category:Artifacts	Niiue (talk)	August 22, 2017
5	Trim down Category:Fire Creatures and Category:Ice Creatures	Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)	September 7, 2017
6	Expand the Behemoth King article	Owencrazyboy9 (talk)	December 23, 2017
7	Create articles on the Remix 10 secret courses in Super Mario Run	Time Turner (talk)	December 26, 2017
8	Add anchor links—and redirects—to Power Moon lists (view progress)	Super Radio (talk)	December 31, 2017
9	Create articles for the Wario: Master of Disguise episodes	DKPetey99 (talk)	January 23, 2018
10	Merge the specified Super Smash Bros. subjects	Time Turner (talk)	April 9, 2018
11	Decide how to cover recurring events in the Mario & Sonic series	BBQ Turtle (talk)	July 17, 2018
12	Allow ports of games with substantial new content to be split from the parent articles	Waluigi Time (talk)	July 23, 2018
13	Implement "See also" sections in Mario Party minigames and WarioWare series microgame articles	Mechanical Dirge (talk)	August 28, 2018
14	Create an article on the 2015 Pixels film	Glowsquid (talk)	September 12, 2018
15	Consider Super Mario Land, Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins, Super Mario Maker, and Super Mario Run as part of the Super Mario series	CompliensCreator (talk)	September 17, 2018
16	Figure out how to classify Monty Mole and Rocky Wrench relative to each other	Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)	September 21, 2018
17	Split Mike's Theme from Mike	Scrooge200 (talk)	September 22, 2018
18	Split Gray P Switch and Switch Block (Mario & Wario) from P Switch	FanOfYoshi (talk)	October 22, 2018
19	Split each Funky's Flights mission into a separate article	Scrooge200 (talk)	October 23, 2018

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

None at the moment.

Miscellaneous

Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia

To quote the wonderful Super Mario Wiki Twitter, "Dark Horse's English translation of the Super Mario Bros. encyclopedia is out today!.. And it turns out it liberally borrows from the wiki, consistency and accuracy be damned." The link contains quite a few examples and images, but in short, hordes of names are taken from either this wiki or the Mario Wikia verbatim, even if it contradicts the original Japanese encyclopedia, isn't originally from English, or was completely conjectural in the first place. This is different from the oft-cited dubiousness of other guides, which are mostly fine with occasional errors that can easily be set aside. Frankly, if we were to blindly and wholly cite every name in this book, we'd be citing ourselves, and that just seems disastrous for credibility. It's also doubtful, if not outright improbable, that these names were specifically chosen by the authors because they sincerely believed that each and every one of them were perfectly acceptable names in English, especially when they're Japanese transliterations that don't even match the Japanese book. The fact that this book is official is worth considering, but it doesn't mean that it should automatically be accepted without at least taking into account the quality issues that were previously mentioned.

With that said, there are certain names that seem to not originate from the wiki, such as "Sentry Garage" for Jump Garage, and with a lack of an English source, using that seems okay. On the one hand, it'd be like we're picking and choosing what's valid and what isn't, but on the other hand, it's plainly obvious which names were directly borrowed from the wiki, and therefore which names can be easily ignored. Think of it as salvaging whatever parts we can from a trainwreck. EDIT: However, Vent's point about these names potentially stemming from the wiki is also valid, and it's definitely worth considering.

Whether the guide is completely barred from being cited or is only allowed to be partially cited, let me make one thing abundantly clear: we shouldn't allow citogenesis to creep onto our wiki.

Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: October 30, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Only allow part of the book to be cited

1. Alex95 (talk) - I'm for siting names the book uses for something we don't already have an official source for. If we've found an official source already (such as the Keronpa Ball), then we ignore the name the book uses.
2. BubbleRevolution (talk) - Like Alex95 said above, I'm for citing names of enemies in the book itself which have no other official English sources, like Chibi Wanwan ("Chibi Chomp"), King Bill (Banzai Bill) ("Banzai Bull's-Eye"), but for everything else, it shouldn't be used.
3. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Per Alex95.
4. Ultimate Mr. L (talk) If it weren't so obvious that the names were directly copied from the wiki by Dark Horse (who clearly made no effort to understand how this wiki works), I'd vote for the above option. If it gave us no new names for conjectural subjects, then I'd obviously vote below. But I see no way we can pass up this chance for the King Bill issue (among others) to be cleared up. This was meant to be a translation. Dark Horse gave us English names for some things and totally failed on others. So we take the English names and leave the foreign ones as is. The book was approved by Nintendo, not made by them, making it lower tier in terms of.... well, canon, even though Mario doesn't have one of those. Therefore, I think we can a bit more nitpicky about what names we take and which ones we don't. Am I making any sense?
5. Yoshi the SSM (talk) Per all. Also, if it was part of the naming page, I say the best bet would be current number 4 with margin of new 4 to new 5, as oppose of new 2 or 3 like if it wasn't this way.
6. Super Radio (talk) per all
7. CompliensCreator (talk) Per BubbleRevolution, Mr. L, and LinkTheLefty. I feel if an enemy otherwise doesn't have an official English name, it's probably best to use whichever one it's given in the book, since otherwise, I don't know if we'll ever get names that are "more official."
8. YoshiFlutterJump (talk) It's still official material, even if our wiki is the original source for a few of the names. But the ones that didn't originate from the wiki are perfectly okay to cite. Not to mention the King Bill madness that drove me crazy ever since I joined...so per all.
9. WeirdDave13 (talk) Per all
10. Paper Jorge (talk) It's officially licensed material, we'd easily side with this had copyright on our very own site not been an issue.
11. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per Owencrazyboy9. Would it make the actual Skull Box named Torpedo Ted Launch Pad?
12. Technickal (talk) I’m as disappointed about the copied transliterations as the next person, but in my opinion that shouldn’t stop us from using the other, perfectly fine English names that came out of it, and I don’t expect to see an opportunity for further corroboration anytime soon. Especially for already confusing names like King Bill that will only continue to confuse wiki newcomers in the future.

#LinkTheLefty (talk) As flimsy as the English translation ended up, this reminds me of the time that Prima directly reused material for their unofficial/unauthorized Yoshi's Story guide in their officially-licensed Nintendo 64 Game Secrets guide, and we cite officialized English names through the latter such as "Shy Guys on Pogo Sticks" that would otherwise never be available. Ignoring it completely would have been counterproductive, and I feel the same about Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia. Either way, Nintendo approved the final product, and you can bet there are going to be very few (if any) opportunities of these old conjectural and foreign names ever getting cleared up, so we have to work with what we've got. #Owencrazyboy9 (talk) Per all. After all, some names in the book (i.e, Targeting Ted Launch Pad), to my knowledge, are entirely new and not copy-and-pasted from the wiki.

Do not allow the book to be cited

1. Time Turner (talk) Per proposal.
2. Glowsquid (talk) Citogenesis is kinda not cool and stuff.
3. Metalex123 (talk) The book should not be cited at all, since it contains unofficial names. But since it is an official book, the book should have its own page, with mentions that some names in it are unofficial names taken from this and other wikis, so it doesn't count as a source. We don't know if the unique names in it are from other unofficial places, so we can't risk having fake information on the wiki. We could make redirects for those fake names (with the reason being that it's in an official book), but since they're mostly fan names, those names shouldn't appear on normal pages. That's just my opinion though. Please don't make this an official source...
4. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) I had a feeling this would happen. Dark Horse has somehow managed to get worse from Arts & Artifacts.
5. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all. Many of these names were clearly taken from this wiki, since they use names that were marked as conjectural on here, such as "Soarin' Stu" and "Mandibug Stack", and are incredibly inconsistent.
6. Hypnotoad (talk) Per Glowsquid and Metalex123, this would not be a good precedent and would generate confusion.
7. Turboo (talk) Per Anton, Glowsquid, and Metalex123.
8. Waluigi Time (talk) If you ask me, the fact that citing parts of this book is basically the same as citing ourselves ruins its credibility as a whole.
9. Yoshi876 (talk) Per all.
10. Syncro263892XL (talk) Per all.
11. Results May Vary (talk) Metalex made a solid point. And honestly, this is making me question official terms to begin with...
12. Lakituthequick (talk) I unironically like the idea of the wiki making things canon, but that's a bad idea for non-English names and I'd rather have it all or nothing. So nothing it is. Per all.
13. Qyzxf (talk) Per all. Especially Metalex makes the perfect point.
14. Vent (talk) Per Glowsquid and Metalex, plus the thing I pointed out in the Discord about even the supposed original names such as 'Sentry Garage' may still be based on mangled information they found on this Wiki. Citing them could be seen as something of an endorsement and I don't believe such sloppy work deserves to be endorsed.
15. Bazooka Mario (talk) I don't strongly support either position, just leaning on playing extra cautious. I just want to see how this pans out in the end. Maybe they will clean up their act, Dark Horse. But I feel this is a huge policy decision, especially now that the book is circulated in the Mario fandom. How are we going to proceed in responding to potential editors who don't realize that the names from Dark Horse aren't to be used for the wiki? Do we use a template? Do we add a refnote at the source? Do we write policy and put that in a template (e.g. {{Dark Horse}}, containing text that says why it's not a good source) that becomes the automatic response?
16. Bloc Partier (talk) Hopefully you all still allow very inactive users to vote. I'm going with this option for two reasons. 1) The names are sloppy at best, and unethical plagiarism at worst. It's clear to everyone who has voted for any option thus far that outright using the encyclopedia as a source would be unacceptable, and I agree with that. Similarly, see Metalex123's response. 2) I don't know how we decide what should be cited from the book. Where do we draw the line? What is reasonable to take? Do we take some of the Japanese names, but not all? It's messy, and to me, it feels like an attempt to pick and choose what's official and what's not official. I don't think that should be up to us, and (while this is a slippery slope argument) I can imagine it causing canon and consistency problems in the future.
17. ThePokémonGamer (talk) Also, this especially applies if other official or officially licensed material outright contradicts the Super Mario Encyclopedia - it may be officially licensed, but does (potentially) involve the fanmade cooperation of this wiki and has no authority on things that other sources have already given - in fact, that should apply for things that other sources *don't* give as well. It's like, in analogy, how the official English dub of Pokémon has no authority over events in the original dialogue more than any fandub would as it, in many cases, makes crap up and sometimes even outright mistranslates things (such as mistranslating move names and having the characters call out the wrong move), as any fandub could do - just like fansubs and fandubs, the people who work on Pokémon's English dub are referring to source material and have no authority on what the source material unarguably says. But to get off that tangent before I ramble on any further: the same goes for whether the names found in the encyclopedia are sourced from Nintendo or are made up by the third party licensee. If they don't get it from Nintendo, the name can be treated with only the same amount authority as a fanmade name. Likewise, if the first party source does start putting a fan name into official usage (this happened for Shiny Pokémon), then yes it can be used.
18. MeritC (talk) Per all.
19. FanOfYoshi (talk) They give the names from the wiki, and i realize it isn't Nintendo of America who translated this.
20. LinkTheLefty (talk) The initially known issues don't even begin to scratch the surface. There are countless mistakes that add up to give the impression that the English translation simply ceased over a year ago after steadfast overreliance on the wiki, providing a particular time capsule of factually incorrect and outdated information throughout the book. The wiki itself is a constant work-in-progress, and to say that an officially licensed product looking up to it is unprofessional would be an understatement. While there are outliers, any potential benefit the book might have had is seriously outweighed by the actual damage, and so it doesn't feel right to use it as a source unless a revised edition ever comes to fruition that fixes all of these problems.
21. Niiue (talk) Per all. I'm so glad the conjectural Super Mario Land 2 enemy names I made up as a kid got replaced, yikes.
22. wildgoosespeeder (talk) This discovery has me at quite a quandary. We will never be 100% certain if names are official or not for each and every case in the book. I'm left with voting like this. Maybe if there is a revised edition we can cite it, but for this first edition, no.
23. Jazama (talk) Per all.
24. rollerC (talk) Per all, with emphasis on BazookaMario's question. I thought allowing non-Wiki originated names to be cited would be reasonable at first, but if the main justification is "we can't miss this chance" then I'm going to say that it is absolutely worth missing the chance if it means we keep our integrity as a Wiki. Yes, it may be a long time before we get this kind of official source for a lot of things, but this is like selling a broken car that you sort of fixed at full price. We would open up the door to citogenesis even just by voting to pick out only some of the official names, because that leaves so many things undefined and each one of the affected Wiki pages becomes a special case. It's far better to just be patient again and wait for a better and more definitive source.
25. Baby Luigi (talk) Per all, after further research was made about the encyclopedia.
26. Mister Wu (talk) I feared the book might not have been completely reliable, but I didn't expect that it would have quite frequently used wikis to get names, even when said names were conjectural or didn't follow the policies of the wikis themselves. At this point, it's better to just tell the editors not to use this book as a reliable source of information regarding names, since it isn't.
27. Owencrazyboy9 (talk) It's kind of interesting how no one voted to cite the book (Option 1), and for good reason. But, even though I'm voting for this side, that doesn't mean we can't use the new names from it that we've never used before, like say Bull's-Eye Banzai and Targeting Ted Launch Pad, to name some examples. Almost everything else that hasn't officially been named in Nintendo media; games, music, strategy guides, etc. has to go. Per all.

Comments

Yes, they do, hence my fury when the SML2 page was leaked. But Rudy the Clown is still on that name. It's licensed by Nintendo, though, so perhaps it's this trope at play. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:54, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

Maybe we should reconsider Rudy the Clown. Regardless, when the authors of the book are supposed to be translating from a source that already provides a slew of official names, smushing together all of the fan names and other junk reeks more of laziness or complacentness rather than a dedicated effort to ascend the fanon. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 17:59, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

What about the individual Three Little Pighead names? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:01, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

Hence the middle option (although since those names are transliterated Japanese unlike Sentry Garage, I'm curious to know if those are from the Japanese guide). Hello, I'm Time Turner. 18:03, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

Same situation exists with the Furiko obstacle. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:05, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

The Super Mario Wiki is neither owned by nor affiliated with Nintendo or the creators of the Mario franchise in any way. I'm mad at Dark Horse right now. Anyway...
This is extremely unlikely, but the idea just popped into my head of an entire template being created that somehow informs the reader that the name was officially adopted despite the subject never having an official English name prior to the wiki naming it. (I'm sure that can be worded better.) But that's nothing more than a brainstorm.
Ultimate Mr. L (Talk-Contribs-Stats) 18:12, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

Per what I said to Doc and within the proposal, it feels unlikely that the writers are genuinely making an attempt to officially adopt these name, especially since this is supposed to be a translation. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 18:15, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

If the partial citation option wins, we should clarify the placement of the book among acceptable sources for naming. I suggest either specifying that it gets lowest priority in officially licensed media, or giving it a special sixth place underneath development names. That way, it handles conjectural and foreign names as needed, but we still clearly use older or alternate names in the event of contradictions. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:36, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

Could you give an example of when this would come into effect? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 18:46, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

It seems like we have some articles that are already in effect when the Super Mario Land 2 page was shown off, like Be. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:50, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

Those are just transliterations of the Japanese names that the wiki was already using, though. Especially since they obfuscate its origins and removes the macrons and other accents for pronunciation, I wouldn't be comfortable citing the book for those enemies. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 18:54, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

Perhaps, but apparently other cases in separate sections like Red Skull Boxes are now identified as Targeting Ted Launch Pads, which I'm fairly certain is a brand new name (correct me if it's from elsewhere). I don't have my hands on a copy yet, so I can't point out other examples right now. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:01, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

Page 211: "They [Torpedo Teds] swim straight forward through the water. Some are propelled from Launch Pads." It's a bit of a generic name, but I'd accept "Launch Pad". Hello, I'm Time Turner. 19:10, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

It occurred to me that the possible reason the Super Mario Land 2 names are so literal might actually be for consistency with the original Super Mario Land names. As for Dark Horse taking names online, that is unfortunate but people should be aware that Prima has been caught doing the same so it is not a new phenomenon. I have a copy of the Japanese version, so in advance of the English release, I've also mentioned most of the affected articles here. Even with discrepancies and such (which I imagine should be largely eliminated by forgoing the full citation option), you could see that a fair amount of the wiki's conjectural and foreign tags would still be easily cleaned up with just the partial citation option. Or we can take a more case-by-case approach if it is best. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:30, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

I received a copy earlier, and the first thing I did was flip to the SML section to check the new name of the Roto-Disc-looking obstacle that the Japanese version calls Kaitensuru Honō ("Spinning Flame") only to find, to my great dismay, that it's labeled as ROTO-DISC. In addition to the Kuromame mix-up, there are a lot of other oddities that stood out to me like the off "Game Boy Player's Guide" names reused in the SML section, Para-Bob-omb and Red Spike Top in the SMW section, directly adding that Bubba is the alternative name of Boss Bass in the SM64 section, Sentry Beam getting its Japanese name Laser Pod and Jump Beamer getting the name of Sentry Beam, Spoing suddenly known as "Bouncing Scuttlebug" in SMG yet named properly in SMG2 (Sprangler is intact in both sections), Hefty and Big Goombas in the NSMBU section respectively and erroneously referred to as Big and Mega Goombas in the NSMBW section (as we did), and the general use of certain terms that I'm aware originated from this very wiki from mostly over a year ago such as Pipe Fist, Fire Jumping Piranha, Killer Chair, Fish Bone and Tweester in SMG, Starbag, Rainbow Note, Ghost Vase, Whimp, Mega Grrrol, conjectural Sunshine NPCs, Switchback Platform, and the transliterations in the SML2 section (as I now realize they must be from us outside of the Three Little Pigheads' individual names because the original Japanese version of the Encyclopedia plainly gave the name of "Bomubomu" as "Bomubomu 1・2・3" and also gave the name of "Be" as the alternate "B Fly"). I could keep going, but this is such a surreal doozy. On the other hand, Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia happens to be the only modern source I've found that gives Cape Mario its correct name of Caped Mario. Go figure.

I'll admit, this is more unusable than I thought and it's no wonder that no one wants to go for the full citation option, but I do see some instances of passable localization buried in it (seemingly courtesy of the other translator if we're being honest, though regardless it needed tighter quality control as it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in Nintendo for allowing a product's release in this rough state, especially after such a long delay). If the partial citation option passes, I believe we can work with the following: Falling Ceiling, Scenic Course (unique translation!) and other SML2 locations including the Casino, Giant Gringill, Chibi Chomp, Ground Urchin, Remote-Controlled Clown Car, [Torpedo Ted] Launch Pad, Targeting Ted Launch Pad, Piranha Pod, and possibly other names for things we do not yet have any name for (e.g. Lemmy and Wendy's "Decoy Doll" from SMW or the "Innertube Goomba" and "Skating Goomba" from SM3DW).

If we go with the no cite option, I'd assume it should at least be acceptable to use Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia for redirect purposes only, since that would otherwise confuse casual readers. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:20, 24 October 2018 (EDT)

Um, "Tweester" in SMG was on a trading card for ages.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:21, 24 October 2018 (EDT)

So essentially, what Super Mario Galaxy was to "Porcupuffer" then. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:51, 24 October 2018 (EDT)

Whatever people's thoughts are on this issue, I think this goes to show that making sure wikis are as accurate as possible is important since so many people just assume whatever's on them is 100% factual. And that people should stop treating information on wikis as 100% factual if it's not sourced. BubbleRevolution (talk) 22:18, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

We should probably use their names as redirects. That way, they can't be moved to them. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:45, 24 October 2018 (EDT)

@Bloc Partier: We wouldn't be "picking and choosing" what's official and what isn't. We'd simply allow anything from the book to be cited that doesn't originate from this wiki. And by the way, inactive users are absolutely allowed to vote. -YFJ (talk · edits) 00:55, 25 October 2018 (EDT)

Well, alright, but then would we write in stone somewhere the list of stuff that didn't originate from the wiki? Would we reference that list every time something comes up? My wording was perhaps not the best, but I still see it as a bureaucratic nightmare. Naive users could easily assume that everything from the encyclopedia was official if some of the things were renamed. I don't know, I see where the "allow some" side is coming from, but I'm really not super comfortable with the idea. I felt the same way when we allowed Prima's official "inaccuracies" to fly. And, thanks! I've been following the drama from the SMW Twitter, and I don't edit much anymore, but the wiki holds a special place in my heart. I felt like I should chip in. BLOC PARTIER. 01:05, 25 October 2018 (EDT)

One perhaps obvious, but still needed clarification: this is only for the English translation and not the other translations? I think this should be clearly pointed out, as for example the German, French and especially the Spanish translations are each their own case, but the title and content of the proposal might not be specific enough to rule them out.--Mister Wu (talk) 22:42, 27 October 2018 (EDT)

The leading paragraph makes it clear that the proposal is only covering the English translation. It's been too many days for me to edit the proposal, anyway, but still, any implementation of this proposal will only revolve around the English translation. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 23:31, 27 October 2018 (EDT)

Before this proposal ends, I must ask...the Japanese version (along with other international versions) are still okay to cite, right? -YFJ (talk · edits) 17:11, 29 October 2018 (EDT)

As I said to Mister Wu, this proposal is only concerned with the English version. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 18:51, 29 October 2018 (EDT)

Yeah, though if the other language versions are found to lack impartiality from fan material just like this English one, those can be individually discussed here in the future. ThePokémonGamer (talk) 21:31, 29 October 2018 (EDT)

You'll need to discuss them separately, quite honestly most of the translations are already released (except for the Italian one which is currently postponed to an unknown date) and we didn't spot these issues. Effectively the most comprehensive wikis are in English, so it can be expcted that this doesn't affect the French and Spanish translations, not sure about the German one which might need an additional check (although I didn't find particular problems so far, there was actually a strict control from Nintendo of Europe that even made them rewrite the depiction of the Koopalings in the otherwise faithful-to-Japanese-version Super Mario Bros. 3 story).--Mister Wu (talk) 21:59, 29 October 2018 (EDT)

Actually, I've seen someone comment on the Spanish translation of the book. I can't tell whether they're praising it or not, but I wonder if that one in particular should be looked into. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 23:12, 29 October 2018 (EDT)