Template talk:Themes

Musical themes that don't qualify for articles yet

See Template talk:Themes/Eligible themes.

Unnamed theme used in cutscenes and in Dr. Crygor (theme)

(Potentially more. Should the usages/remixes/... be counted here? Both Lost a Life & Game Over (theme) are counted with Ground Theme (Super Mario Bros.), so maybe. --SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 10:28, May 10, 2024 (EDT))

My understanding is that a different version of the same theme only counts towards the threshold if it's in a different game; multiple versions in the same game only count as one (while still being notable enough for an article). The version of this theme used in the Reality stage is itself reused as Dr. Crygor (theme), but most of the instances of that theme specifically use a melody line that's not featured in the version of the theme found elsewhere in Mega Microgame$!. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 10:37, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

I brought up Lost a Life & Game Over (theme) because they are different versions of Ground Theme (Super Mario Bros.), but they are counted separately. That's what I'm talking about. Different versions in the same game, not re-uses. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 11:48, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

I know. I'm saying that my understanding is that those don't count towards the threshold. They count as examples of the theme, but they do not count as additional uses for the sake of reaching the threshold for notability. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 12:05, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Well, the top of the page itself says this for what counts: "Any form of a theme in the original game." SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:25, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

It says "appear in at least 8 pieces of Super Mario-related media", not "appear at least 8 times in Super Mario-related media". jan Misali (talk · contributions) 12:30, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

The full section itself:

Counts towards the threshold:

Any form of a theme in the original game.

Any form of a theme in a remake of the original game.

Any form of a theme in another game.

Any form of a theme in a remake of another game.

Any form of a theme in any other type of Super Mario-related piece of media.

Doesn't count towards the threshold:

Any form of a theme in a retro service.

Any form of a theme in a piece of non-Super Mario-related media.

Hope that clears things up. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:33, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

That's not the whole section. The thing I quoted is immediately before that, the part where it says "8 pieces of media". Yes, all of these count as appearances, but if more than one of these is in the same piece of media that doesn't count as an additional piece of media. Sorry for being unclear. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 12:37, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Then why does it say Any form of a theme then? Is that false? Cause if it is, it would need to be removed. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:40, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

It says "any form of a theme" counts towards the threshold of appearing in "8 pieces of media". As in, any form of a theme appearing in a piece of media counts for that piece of media. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 12:43, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Ugh, only the 1st part made sense for me. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:46, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Mario Land 2 motif in Wario Land?

Should that count?: https://twitter.com/PRINGLE2612/status/1617609014719975425. I would naively be inclined to say yes, but what do you think? --Conradd (talk) 10:24, May 11, 2024 (EDT)

It sounds similar enough that it could be intentional, but the "inverted harmony" version isn't an exact match. The 3D Land theme doesn't appear to be counted as a version of the ground theme from Super Mario Bros. 3, so I don't think a song being intentionally somewhat similar (but not quite the same) is enough. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 10:32, May 11, 2024 (EDT)

I can give an analogy. When I saw a few SMB movie trailers (2020, not the old one), the end would play a version of the SMB ground theme, but it wasn't exact. It had an ending, which the OG version didn't. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:48, May 11, 2024 (EDT)

Super Mario Land Ending & Mario Kart: Double Dash!! Rainbow Road

Probably a coincidence, but fun nonetheless.:

• First, the original from Super Mario Land:

• Then, the arrangement from the Super Mario Land album:

• And finally, the Rainbow Road theme from Mario Kart: Double Dash!!:

--Conradd (talk) 09:12, May 12, 2024 (EDT)

I can definitely hear the similarities. I can also hear similarities between the OG ending and the Ground Theme from Super Mario Bros. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 09:18, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

Composers subsection

Lately, I've had an idea. How do you guys feel about adding a Composers subsection in the Recurring themes template? The idea is to have dedicated articles about Mario composers, with breakdowns/analyses on how they've composed their music over the years, their habits, the music concepts they've put on the table, etc...etc... You know... what makes their music theirs and not someone else's. To gives you an idea:

--Conradd (talk) 16:34, May 13, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah, that would be fine with me. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 08:42, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Should I make a proposal? --Conradd (talk) 09:26, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

(shrug) That would be up to you, not me. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 09:29, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Why am I even asking? --Conradd (talk) 09:57, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

don't include 2-4

Proposer: Conradd (talk)
Deadline: May 28, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Conradd (talk) per proposal.
2. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) Per proposal & @Conradd.

Oppose

1. Hewer (talk) We already have Template:People, so this is redundant and also kinda off-topic for the themes navbox. Should we include game developers in the games navbox, for instance? It also appears that this proposal was made under the mistaken belief that we don't already have composer articles.
2. JanMisali (talk) Per Hewer. Seems redundant and off-topic.
3. Arend (talk) Per all + see comments
4. MegaBowser64 (talk) Purr all

Comments

Would the composers be recurring as well, or is it just having composers in general be included? Because if it's the latter, then I don't see how that would fit on a nav template called Recurring themes - especially if the composer only worked on one game. Might as well introduce a separate nav template for composers, which would be redundant given that {{People}} already has a subsection for composers and sound engineers. rend (talk) (edits) 13:13, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Good point. @Conradd? Anything to answer this question? SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 13:45, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

@Hewer I'm not seeing any redundancy here. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 14:09, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Template:People has a whole section for "Composers and sound engineers". Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 14:15, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

To quote from the original post, "The idea is to have dedicated articles about Mario composers, with breakdowns/analyses on how they've composed their music over the years, their habits, the music concepts they've put on the table, etc...etc... You know... what makes their music theirs and not someone else's." SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 14:17, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Well, we already do have dedicated articles about those composers, and there already is a navigational template that has a directory of those articles. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 14:22, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

But do those articles have anything listed in that quote I put? SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 14:25, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Well, the thing is, the ideas Conradd had in mind for these composer pages could simply be added on the already existing articles without the need to unnecessarily add all the composers on the Themes template. In fact, if the idea was to create dedicated articles for these composers, then this proposal to add them to this template is not even necessary? It's merely tangential to Conradd's idea and only seems to have been made because a nav template for composers is useful. But given this concept-turned proposal despite {{People}} already including composers, and the fact that Conradd seems to speak as if not a single composer has a dedicated article yet, speaks to me that, while their ideas for these articles are good, Conradd had done some poorly executed research - if any - on the wiki to come to this conclusion. All you had to do was look up Koji Kondo in the wiki's search engine. rend (talk) (edits) 15:08, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

(shrug) Well, I don't really know anymore, but I'm still supporting. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 15:11, May 14, 2024 (EDT)

Uhhh...I think I found direct connection between Bo Noise / Super Bo Noise and SMB2.

youtube.com/@SuperShowHQ/videos has a butt-load of SMBSS, TAOSMB3, and SMW (show) music, and one of them is a variation of the SMB2 overworld music, and that is directly used in the SMB2 level of both Bo Noise AND Super Bo Noise! This needs to go both in the SMB2 overworld music page AND the correct reference page! SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 08:14, September 9, 2024 (EDT)

A Pizza Tower mod does not deserve a mention on either of those pages, if we covered everything that used Mario Music we would be working on these pages until we die. BiggestMan 10:37, September 16, 2024 (EDT)

Ok, music pages I get, BUT NOT REFERENCE PAGES! SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 15:39, September 18, 2024 (EDT)