Talk:The Wizard

Merge this article to "List of references in film"

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

Merge to "List of references in film" 8-1
This guest article about a non-Super Mario motion medium is way too short. It only has two paragraphs (one paragraph as intro, one paragraph as a single section). The intro paragraph features three sentences: the bare-bones, the pointing out of Mario cameos, and the criticism of such. The Mario references are randomly split into its own section too.

The Wreck-It Ralph mention in the list of film references (four paragraphs, compared to this article's two) is longer than this. Which is why I am proposing to merge The Wizard guest article to such list and make this article name a redirect.

Proposer: PnnyCrygr (talk)
Deadline: January 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Merge

1. PnnyCrygr (talk) per
2. Super Game Gear (talk) Per proposer, especially the point about Wreck-It Ralph. Though The Wizard is well known for promoting Super Mario Bros. 3, it more prominently promoted Nintendo products in general, not just Super Mario games.
3. PrincessPeachFan (talk) Per.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, this really ought to have been merged if Wreck-it Ralph was merged too.
5. Mario (talk) Merge!!!
6. EvieMaybe (talk) per all
7. Platform (talk) per all
8. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per all

Do nothing

1. TheUndescribableGhost (talk): This movie serves as an advertisement for Super Mario Bros. 3 and the final segment is about playing the game. So really, it's fine.

Comments

Why wasn't this merged with List of references in film in the first place? PrincessPeachFan (talk) 10:08, December 31, 2023 (EST)

Looking at the edit history, this can apparently be traced back to a Mario Boards conversation from 2014 that just has gone unnoticed since then. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 11:49, December 31, 2023 (EST)

I want to expand on my points since the opposition still needs to. So far, I brought up how the movie is known as the "movie that advertised Super Mario Bros. 3 in the West." the opposition is just using Wreck-It Ralph and the article's short length as a justification. The proposal needs to bring up the coverage policy. I'll quote it here and bold out a crucial detail.

"When a Super Mario character appears in another franchise (including stand-alone releases), it is either a guest appearance or a cameo. The difference is how much impact the Super Mario character has on the game: if they have a role in the plot or are featured as a playable character, it is a guest appearance, whereas if they can be erased without any ill effects on the game, it is a cameo."

The "ill effects" that would happen if we remove that scene where the characters play Super Mario Bros. 3 for a tournament is that we remove an entire sequence from the film that makes up a portion of the movie. It has a role in the plot. On the other hand, Wreck-It Ralph has Bowser make a brief appearance. The thing about his appearance is that he doesn't serve a role in the plot. Therefore, labeling Wreck-It Ralph as a cameo is reasonable in comparison to The Wizard.TheUndescribableGhost (talk) 11:08, January 7, 2024 (EST)

Yeah, but here's the things. Super Mario Bros. 3 makes up the last portion of the film and it's not even being exclusively promoted, the film's about Nintendo and video games in general. Two, the game has a role in the plot and it is notable but it's still just an advertisement. Finally, everyone on the Internet exclusively says the game is a cameo despite having a role in the plot. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 12:59, January 8, 2024 (EST)

Yes, Super Mario Bros. 3 is not the only game mentioned; that is true. As we said, we are talking about a guest appearance, not a crossover. In your comment, you even admit the game has a notable role. You're just proving my point correct. Also, the "Finally, everyone on the Internet exclusively says the game is a cameo" is invalid because it does not argue something mentioned within the coverage guidelines or even prove my claims wrong. People on the internet told me that Mario Kart's Spiny Shell item is a Blue Shell. No offense, but this is a weak argument to counter my claims. TheUndescribableGhost (talk) 13:27, January 11, 2024 (EST)

The King of Kong is a documentary literally about Donkey Kong, yet lacks an article to its own. That is literally a documentary that, if you removed the Mario elements from it, would have as much content in it as The Catcher in the Rye (2008). Plot relevance in the source material isn't what determines if the articles got split, and to be real here, we feel like it's kinda arbitrary at the moment with no clear line between "guest appearance" and "reference"; Pixels seems to only be split because it was declared a guest appearance in 2018, whereas this article was only split due to a decision on the Mario Boards. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 13:50, January 11, 2024 (EST)

Kind of random, but I found the Mario Boards conversation where the creation of this article was approved, if anybody wants to know. BOWSER... (talk) 20:21, January 12, 2024 (EST)

Reinstate this page

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Saturday, December 21, 2024, 13:53 GMT

The more I think about the proposal that merged this page, the less sense it makes. The fact that the article was too short was by no means a valid reason to delete it, and of course Mario elements were split into a subsection, that's how this wiki handles every guest appearance title. The Wreck-It Ralph comparison is also weak. Mario Bros 3 played a large enough role in the movie and, to quote Wikipedia, "officially introduced Super Mario Bros. 3 to North America", not to mention, Mario is on the cover. What was Mario's role in Wreck-It Ralph? Few cameos that didn't play any significant role in the movie. The biggest one I can think of is Bowser that appeared in one scene. The Wizard, on the other hand, is a part of Mario history and treating it like a "reference in film" is doing it disservice. I propose to either reinstate this as a guest appearance title or as "historically significant".

Proposer: Axii (talk)
Deadline: October 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Reinstate as a guest appearance

1. Axii (talk) Per proposal.
2. Hewer (talk) Per proposal. I don't get the "historically significant" option though, MarioWiki:Coverage describes this designation as being for "games that have had a notable impact on the Super Mario franchise despite not being a part of the franchise in any way". In other words, it's for things that weren't originally Mario-related but later became so, which doesn't apply here as The Wizard was always Mario-related.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) Given how the proposal to similarly merge Pixels went, we think this is only fair. We did say, after all, that either we wanted these all merged, or for this and Wreck-It Ralph to get their articles back (while the Mario cameos in Ralph are a lot less substantial as Bowser is moreso a part of an ensemble than a full cameo like, say, Q*Bert, he does still get a prominent role and was repeatedly shown in trailers, a few items show up in the Lost & Found, and Mario himself even gets name-dropped, though he never appears on-screen.) So, failing the former, we might as well do the latter, and this brings us closer to that. All we ask for is some consistency, and this is helping with that!
4. Pseudo (talk) Per proposal.
5. EvieMaybe (talk) per Camwoodstock
6. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per proposal.
7. Arend (talk) Much like how DK and the Donkey Kong arcade game is relevant to Pixels, so is Super Mario Bros. 3 to The Wizard. In fact, both are rather significant to the respective films' climax.
8. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.

Reinstate as historically significant

1. Axii (talk) Per proposal. Maybe that's a better option for this movie