Talk:Naval Piranha

(First topic)

I love this boss.It is my absolute favorite!By the way, I think this is a pun, becuase her weakpoint is her navel!
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by The sylvan one (talk).

Please use the forum for discussion like that, the talk pages are to be used to find ways to improve articles. -- Sir Grodus

Boy or Girl?

I don't think "She" has a gender because ITS A PLANT!. Also, Does it ever DIRECTLY state it's a girl? Someone, tell me if I'm right! User:maxlover2

"In Tetris Attack, Naval Piranha is the tenth level and the boss of easy vs. mode. She frequently uses hearts in her dialogue, and calls Yoshi "Babeh" so it is presumed she is female." ~Kenja

In the Yoshi's Island Strategy Guide, which I happen to have, Naval Piranha is refered to as 'She' several times. --General Kelty 21:18, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

MPA says that SHE lives and thrives in the desert. Max, we know it's a plant. Petey is a plant. Toadsworth is a friggin mushroom. But there gender has never been questioned. - Ultimatetoad

Please note that fungi and plants can have gender, just like animals. -- Son of Suns

http://wikiwiki.jp/dette-island/?%A5%D3%A5%C3%A5%B0%A5%D1%A5%C3%A5%AF%A5%F3 she refers herself as "atai" , which usually used by a girl whose has bad manners.

Clarification

Does the skip work in the GBA version?
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by 50.177.204.231 (talk).

Seeing as Nintendo intended this to occur, it probably does Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)}

Naval Piranha Gender

Who referred it as a she? It’s best to use it because we don’t know what the gender is MarioFan403 (talk) 13:26, 17 April 2018 (EDT)

Apparently the Nintendo Power guide. There was a section regarding it, but I removed it as it seemed pointless to go into detail about real-life plant reproduction systems. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:39, 17 April 2018 (EDT)

Which one? The SNES guide uses "he", while the GBA guide uses "it". Hello, I'm Time Turner. 13:41, 17 April 2018 (EDT)

Maybe not, but check two sections above and check all of those sources? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:43, 17 April 2018 (EDT)

Only finding instance of gender in the SNES guide. Borp on Discord said the gender isn't specified in Tetris Attack, and same from M4E about Mario Party Advance. If the Yoshi's Woolly World game or a different guide calls Naval Piranha a female, we could add that. 21:17, 14 July 2018 (EDT)

There's a part in the Playing With Super Power: Nintendo Super NES Classics guide referring to Naval Piranha as female. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:30, 28 July 2018 (EDT)

Spike the Piranha

Is Spike the Piranha the same as Naval Piranha, as this article currently considers? I would say not, and here's why:

• Their origins are different. While Naval is just a regular Piranha Plant enchanted by Kamek, Spike is made from acorns and a party ball.
• The word "naval" doesn't even apply to Spike. He's fought in a garden, not in a watery area, and Yoshi damages him by hitting his head with spike balls, not hitting his belly button with eggs.
• While Spike does have growths similar to Naval Buds, they behave differently. Spike's buds spit out spiked balls and Shy Guys and also spread out in waves, while Naval Buds wrap around the stage.

I think Spike was meant to be a reference to Naval Piranha, not the same character. Scrooge200 (talk) 23:04, March 28, 2019 (EDT)

I agree with every argument you made concerning why these characters are separate; Spike's derived conceptually, but not the same thing since he has a different weak spot. ^(T|C) 23:42, March 28, 2019 (EDT)

That was added by an ip before the name of the new entity was known. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:56, March 28, 2019 (EDT)

At the release of the full game, we'll see if the Japanese name match. -- FanOfYoshi at 02:35, March 29, 2019 (EDT)

That happened hours ago. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:36, March 29, 2019 (EDT)

Calling similar Piranha Plant bosses "Naval Piranhas"

They may resemble Naval Piranha, but straight-up saying they are Naval Piranhas is just overdoing it, just because Naval Piranha was the first one with this design. To me, that looks like speculation. If we are going to mention these here, then at the very least we should say "similar to Naval Piranha". Nightwicked Bowser 11:55, May 29, 2021 (EDT)

"Big Pakkun." It's no more "speculation" than saying it in turn is derived from Big Piranha Plant; it's not "speculation" at all, it's inference. The design similarities were clearly intentional on the part of the developers, and that, combined with the generic name in the language of origin and Smash explicitly listing it as a species makes this seem pretty clear-cut to me. Another matter needing mentioned is how the Smilax are generically called "bud" in Japan, making them similar to Lava Bud (the only other "bud" with an official designation). To put it simply, if we wrote Megasmilax and Big Bungee as a species, there'd be no question that we'd have considered both of them derived from Naval Piranha for a long time, like how we consider Boolossus a Big Boo. And for that matter, how we considered this an individual Big Piranha Plant before I rewrote it as a character/species. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:43, May 29, 2021 (EDT)

Boolossus is obviously a Big Boo though. Nightwicked Bowser 07:38, May 30, 2021 (EDT)

No more "obviously" than Megasmilax is a Big Pakkun. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:05, May 30, 2021 (EDT)

The problem with that I realised recently, is that Naval Piranha is not known as "Big Pakkun" outside of Japan, it's most likely given its name because of it dwelling in water, which as far I've seen the rest don't. I know the JP name is what you base these on, but really the English name actually doesn't make much sense the way its being worded. Nightwicked Bowser 16:59, May 30, 2021 (EDT)

And in Tetris Attack (the Western version of Panel de Pon), Mario Party Advance, and Yoshi's Woolly World, it's also outside of water, so the name is an artifact anyways. (In fact, MPA's ending has it happily living in the desert.) Also several of the other non-English names don't have an aquatic basis, like in French it being "Ultra Piranha" or it being named after Audrey II in German. Now, this is something I wouldn't put on the article without confirmation from the developers, but most likely the reason it was in water to begin with was so they wouldn't have to visibly connect all the vines, not intended as an innate part of it. (Not that this means anything but I do have a bachelor's degree in game development so I'm familiar with creative ways to work around limitations) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:06, May 30, 2021 (EDT)

So here's my two cents: I agree to the point that several big boss plants with the similar tangled vines and bud design can probably be listed as variants with relatively little issue. Of these, it's safest to consider Big Bungee Piranha as clearly derived from Naval Piranha, since it's not only from the game's sequel but it has several of the same attacks such as use of Nipper Spores. Spike the Piranha seemingly takes more from Wild Ptooie Piranha as it utilizes other projectiles, but I think that can additionally be called a derivative by proxy, considering it's from a subsequent Yoshi platformer also including what's effectively another twist on Burt the Bashful. I'm iffier on RPG bosses due to the genre difference, but if I had to say what's likelier next, Lava Piranha simply has more similarities with Yoshi's Island Naval Piranha over Megasmilax right down to the bud design and "spore" usage. I wouldn't be too sure about Megasmilax since it's just not as transformative as the aforementioned in my estimation - the Smilax buds look virtually identical to typical Piranha Plant heads, the flower itself is most closely derived from Bean Valley's (potted/grown) plants, and this goes for the stem as depicted in the overworld. I'd remove Piranha Creeper and Prickly Piranha Plant enemies from the infobox entirely - the Naval Piranha similarities are the most general here, they lack common buds, and the thorny element there is mainly a visual indicator of what can't be stomped on in games where regular Piranha Plants are stompable more than particularly probable intention. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:12, March 26, 2022 (EDT)

To bring in my two cents (since this talk seemingly hasn't been resolved), Naval Piranha is as much a "species" as Boss Teresa. Generic Japanese name be darned, it's still a singular character, of which only one Naval Piranha appears in a game (with the notable example of Yoshi's Wooly World, but even then the Mario franchise is no stranger to seemingly destroyed bosses inexplicably reappearing later on). By the same logic used to call Naval Piranha a species, shouldn't we be considering Burt the Bashful a species due to the existence of the Big Burt Bros., or Hookbill the Koopa a species because of Knot-Wing? And I don't think any of us want to see an article start with "Burt the Bashfuls are..." DrippingYellow (talk) 14:24, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

Yes, actually. Hookbill also has Kent C. to deal with while Tap-Tap the red nose has a "special" and a "super" version, while Roger the Potted Ghost gets combined with Boo Blah into a small recurring enemy that acts as a variant of both in DS. This is precisely why I had a "character/species" infobox that has since been deleted while I was away (because of something about voice actors? I dunno). The operative word here is "Big;" for that Boo, it's "Boss." That NoA decided to spice up the names in localization changes nothing in how they are treated as variable entities. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:29, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

I suggested once adding variant-type parameters to the character infobox, for situations like these, but otherwise I'm not sure they warrant treating these as species. Blinker (talk) 14:36, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

@Doc That's all well and good, but don't seem to have acknowledged the fact that the localized names are very clearly intended as character names by the localizers. To go past that and say that all Koopa Troopas that are transformed by Kamek are Hookbill the Koopas is to suggest that the localizers intended to have the name belong to a type of enemy, an intention that has never been communicated as such to my knowledge. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of Naval Piranha, what other instances are there of this wiki considering characters/species to be a variant of a single-character "variant"? DrippingYellow (talk) 21:27, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

Here's the rub: it doesn't really matter how the localizers interpreted it for one specific game. Localization is a fickle process, open to interpretation of whatever what random team of people decides to write. Hence why so many of the enemies in SMW2 have names contradicting previously established ones. The original language, in this case Japanese, simply wrote them as being "enlarged form of [x]" rather than giving an ultra-snappy name to them. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:03, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

I wager it does matter when you put a name intended for a single character into a field labelled "species". And if something is an "enlarged version of [x]", doesn't that just make it a variant of [x], and not necessarily a variant of "yet another enlarged version of [x] that happened to come first"? I should also note that most of the weird SMW2 names are from the Nintendo Player's Guide, which to my knowledge was produced by Nintendo Power, not the localizers of the game itself. DrippingYellow (talk) 23:51, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

"Hootie the Blue Fish," "Jean de Fillet," "Seedy Sally," and "Piscatory Pete," among others, also come off as names that would make more sense for a singular character rather than a species - heck, "Baron von Zeppelin" and "Dr. Freezegood" are just non-sentient objects. Also, they acted pretty hand-in-hand back in the day; for example, the enclosed manual for DKC2 pretty blatantly plugs the Player's Guide for that game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:03, May 8, 2024 (EDT)

My problem isn't that the names "sound" like character names, the problem is that these boss names were chosen in the context of a single entity (even the Player's Guide gives "Hooties" a plural form, and other enemies with less proper-sounding names are also referred to in the singular in their descriptions, such as Frog Pirate and Dangling Ghost). To my knowledge, they have never called the Big Burt Brothers "Burt the Bashfuls" or called Knot-Wing a "winged Hookbill the Koopa". I would rather not invent a usage case for a name, personally.
Also, the manuals and the player's guide going "hand-in-hand"? All the manuals I've seen are essentially translations of the Japanese manual. I find it very hard to believe that the people writing the matter-of-fact english manual are from the same internal group as whoever referred to Roger the Potted Ghost as a "raging blowhard" and called the already-named "Pound the ground" move "The Fall Guy".
Take a look at Mario Mania for instance, and you will notice a not insignificant amount of, even at the time, names that directly contradict names already set in stone, even those in the credits of the game itself ("Mini-Ninja", anyone? How about Volcano Plant? "Mini-Dino" contradicts both the credits and the manual, where it is called "Mini-Rhino".) Even Nintendo Power itself is prone to baffling mistakes (like in issue 28, calling the Jumping Piranha Plant "Pumpkin Plant", calling Urchins "Porcu-Puffers"), suggesting that the marketing/magazine team and localization team are not in nearly as close communication as you seem to think. DrippingYellow (talk) 12:54, May 8, 2024 (EDT)

While it indeed does vary, inconsistencies like that also exist within each of these publications as well, such as how certain enemies were given multiple listings in the SMW2 guide. All this really proves is how fickle the process truly is, such as when Tap-Tap the Golden and the disguising Slimes were treated as being another Tap-Tap the Red Nose and Salvo the Slime. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:11, May 8, 2024 (EDT)

Okay, I was never arguing that the guides didn't contain errors and just contradicted each other. My point was that since these publications have mistakes not uncommonly, that puts their trustworthiness for being the localizers' mouthpiece into question.
Anyway, that was kind of off-topic, this was about boss names. I don't really buy "localization can be weird sometimes" as a reason for appropriating a name. Basically every English source, including in-game dialogue, uses the boss names as proper names, not merely descriptors (see the intro dialogue for Marching Milde, Bessie Bass, Big Beanie, Count Fang, Fred de Fillet). Just because names for singular subjects are what the localizers used to replace "Big [x]", that doesn't mean they are a complete substitution that you can just fill in the blank with said name to represent a species. If that makes sense.

Also, correction: the slimes are talked about as though they are the Salvo the Slime, and even then that's only the case for two out of three of them; the first one in Tap-Tap's fort is actually referred to in the Player's Guide as just "a sneaky slime" (surprised nobody caught that and put it as another reference for the name by now). The Tap-Tap the Red-Nose/Golden confusion doesn't seem to have shown up until the SMA3 guide, with vague phrasing that doesn't in itself suggest that Golden is a resurrected Red-Nose, just stating that "Tap-Tap the Golden is back". Both of these are less products of a "fickle process" and moreso straight-up mistakes on the authors' parts. DrippingYellow (talk) 00:44, May 9, 2024 (EDT)

Would Naval Be A Mammal?

Naval has navel, meaning it was born and didn't grow from a seed, so wouldn't it be a mammal? And if Naval is a mammal, wouldn't all piranha plants be mammals? They seem very much like animals, so what if they are?
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bitmapper1 (talk).

They're silly cartoon plants, you're not supposed to think too hard about it. It's like how they also have calcium-looking bones, while several turtle characters have hair. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:11, June 3, 2025 (EDT)

Treat this page as a character

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

canceled by proposer
This has been bothering me for a long time, time to fix it

First, I don't know where we get that Naval Piranha is a species. The most official thing I've found is the Viridi dialogue in Smash. Yes, the same dialogue that also includes Petey. So to counteract, i'm going to include all the evidence tha proves that Naval Piranha is indeed a character

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island

Naval Piranha is a boss in SMW2YI, where all the bosses are consistently catalogued and treated as character. Also in the profiles, is treated as a character:

• Official Nintendo Player's Guide: That's not an alligator living in the sewers of the castle at the end of World 3, but a dino-eating plant. Judging by how slow he moves, though, Naval Piranha hasn't encountered many snacks as shrewd as Yoshi. Have you heard of the Achilles heel? Well, Yoshi knows that this ferocious foliage has an Achilles Adam's apple!
• Super Power Club Cards bio:
  • Description: Ravenous water plant. Will chow down on anything in sight but prefers a diet of dinos.
  • Favorite Movie: Little Shop of Horrors
  • How to Beat Him: Ricochet your eggs off the wall. They'll skip over the water and whack Naval's stem. When he charges, jump over him. Wait until the pods he shoots hatch, then eat the eggs they produce.
• Shogakukan guide: 下水に住むパックンフラワーの親玉。花のくせに、出ベソがコンプレックスという変わり者。 (The head of the Piranha Plant family that lives in the sewers. He is a flower with a complex about his protruding belly button.)
• Shogakukan guide (Game Boy Advance version): 下水に住むパックンフラワーの親玉で、ワールド3-8のボス。花のくせにデべソがコンプレックスらしい。タマゴをかべに反射させ、へソに3回当てよう。
  

(The boss of World 3-8, the master of the Piranha Plants that lives in the sewers. He seems to have a complex about being a flower with a fat belly. Reflect the egg on the wall and hit the belly button three times.)

Yoshi's Island DS

Naval Piranha makes a cameo alongside other bosses, again proving that they are the same type of bosses/characters

• 

Tetris Attack

Naval Piranha has his own dialogue.

1. You fools! Do I have to teach you penalty for removing the spell? You get to come for supper... MY supper!!

Naval Piranha profiles, where he treats Yoshi as an old rival.

1. I'm Naval Piranha Plant
2. Hey Yoshi! Ready to give in yet? Do you still dream of defeating me? Har-har! Go see yer momma, you little green lizard. Go home and cry, baby

Mario Party Advance

Naval Piranha makes a cameo in Bowserstein's challenge, where Bowser supposedly created this monster. However, he's still treated as a character. Like Burt the Bashful, who also changes origins depending on the game, but remains a character. "Bowser forces the player to duel Naval Piranha through the Koopa Kurl minigame."

Yoshi's Woolly World / Poochy & Yoshi's Woolly World

Naval Piranha returns to his role as a boss, just like Burt the Bashful. He's still treated as a character, and even in an extra level, he wants revenge on Yoshi.

• 

Conclusions and ending

From what we have seen there is no apparent difference between this boss and others... One of the things that bothers me the most about the page right now is how it treats Big Bungee Piranha and Spike the Piranha as notable members despite not having any official information that even links them. They do look similar, but in the same way that Lava Piranha is an inspired relative, why aren't the others? Damn, we're not in 2010 anymore to make headcanons or fan theories ; we have redundant official information that treats him like a character. HE IS A CHARACTER. It's not difficult to understand, and the page is weird . Sometimes he's a character, other times a species, and other times a relative. Make up your mind once and for all.

I know the line between character and species is fragile, but this is also about consistency. If Naval Piranha is already a species, why not continue with Burt the Bashful, then King Bob-omb, and then even Bowser?

Also, the Smash Bros "argument" can also be used for Pewee Piranha, Mom Piranha, Big Bungee Piranha, and Megasmilax since they are mentioned in plural in Viridi's dialogue.

So, we have official information that portrays him as a character, coming from games and profiles. But you're going to use as an argument a humorous dialogue hidden as an Easter egg in a game outside the franchise that was written for comedic purposes, as explicitly stated, and that the writers probably only took the subjects they saw.

Choose: official information or a theory without official information .

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: September 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.
2. Rykitu (talk) Wait... we weren't already doing this? "OH, MY!!"
3. Salmancer (talk) Is this pointless? Yes. Is this hair splitting? Yes. Should we bin "species" as a wiki categorization so that we never have to argue about this and similar topics ever again? Yes. But in the meantime... Just because there are variants of Naval Piranha doesn't turn it into a species, the opposition did just bring up Burt the Bashful. And while we could go and change Burt the Bashful from character to species right now, this is the voting option that leads to the wiki having a consistent answer as to what a non-Baby Bowser boss from Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island means sooner. (And honestly this is partially spite about how a course called Naval Piranha 2: Now It's Personal! was noted as possibly starring a character who is not the Naval Piranha from Naval Piranha's Sewer until May of this year even though that's outright the joke of Naval Piranha 2's name. I think the overblown amount of caution was caused by this page's subject being noted as a species.)

Oppose

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per my prior arguments. This "character/species" bickering thing really needs to stop, it's a holdover from the wiki's early "lore-driven" days. It's clear the devs don't care for consistent singularity or multiplicity, and in this case, several further iterations of this entity (Smilax, Lava/PM Fire, Big Bungee, Spike; all of them are large, bramble-stemmed, and have the little "bud" things to attack with) show that it should at least be considered in plural to some degree until we can get that mess sorted out. The Big Burt Bros. and Burt the Ball should just as much be considered derivative of Burt the Bashful, Tap-Tap the Golden and Super Big Tap-Tap from Tap-Tap the Red Nose, and Knot-Wing the Koopa (and honestly maybe even Kent C. Koopa) from Hookbill the Koopa. Because they are indeed derivative of them. Also, Viridi lists them in plural (while listing Petey Piranha, Paper Petey, and Petea Piranha each in singular instead), so that indicates Nintendo views them as pluralized. And while yes, that game is Smash Bros., it doesn't change the fact that it is translated by the same group of Nintendo that translates pretty much all the other games we cover.
2. Hewer (talk) This is pointless hair-splitting. It's both, or it's whatever the devs of any particular game want it to be. If its origin can be flexible, so can this. We should really stop acting like there's such a firm line between "characters" and "species" when Nintendo often doesn't seem to care.
3. Xiahou Ba, The Nasty Warrior (talk) Per Hewer.
4. PrincessPeachFan (talk): Per Doc and Hewer.
5. DryBonesBandit (talk) Per all.
6. YoYo (talk) Per doc
7. Camwoodstock (talk) We'd prefer just nixing "character/species" as a whole, but for now, we'd err on the side of "assume there's multiple of these", per Viridi.

Comments

@Doc von Schmeltwick About this line between characters and species. An individual can be treated differently depending on the game, that is because as Miyamoto said, the characters are like actors and adapt to each game. However, it is important to portray the individual in the role they have played the most times and for which they are most recognized. In this case, Naval Piranha has been treated as a character more times than it has been a species. Also, why everything has to be variants, we are not Nintendo to say what is a variant and what is not without an official word. Why instead of Naval Piranha being a species that has notable members like Spike the Piranha and Big Bungee Piranha, it couldn't be better. Naval Piranha is a character. Big Bungee Piranha is a character that is inspired by and has direct relations to Naval Piranha. Spike the Piranha is a character that resembles Naval Piranha although they don't share anything else beyond that. Why? Sorbetti (talk) 18:20, August 24, 2025 (EDT)

"On the biological controversy surrounding Bowser's children, Miyamoto admits that he does not know who Bowser Jr.'s mother is although he is a legitimate son. The rest of Bowser's seven Koopa Kids are not his children, and are essentially adopted.

In response to a question regarding the Mario characters' willingness to play tennis or race karts with each other despite constantly being at odds, Miyamoto stated that he thinks of the cast as more of "a troupe of actors."

"If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon," Miyamoto said. "They might be businessman in one [cartoon] or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games."

As to Mario taking on other odd jobs, such as a doctor and Olympian, the designer said that Mario has always been "blue-collar."

"He's hard-working, and certainly much more physical in nature," he said. "So, I think that a doctor is sort of an unexpected and perhaps unbelievable role for Mario. Perhaps the Dr. Mario you're thinking of was maybe, in some way, not necessarily legitimate." Sorbetti (talk) 19:13, August 24, 2025 (EDT)

How does this relate to the proposal? At best it's an argument against it, since it suggests that details like this can change between games rather than being completely consistent. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:23, August 24, 2025 (EDT)

@Hewer More than the proposal, it relates to the argument about the line between species and character. Yes, there are times when characters can become species when several of these appear ; Petey Piranha, King Bob-omb, and even Mario have undergone these changes. However, these changes should not determine if a subject is a species or a character ; what should dictate this is how it has been portrayed most of the time. Because in the Mario franchise, there is no canon, a subject can be anything from one game to another ; however, it is notable to present the main role of the character on the page. Petey Piranha, although he has sometimes been duplicated in-game and even has another similar subject (Petea Piranha), has been portrayed more times as a character than a species ; the same is true for King Bob-omb. I don't remember that Mario Party minigame, but there is one in which there are two King Bob-ombs ; does this mean that King Bob-omb is a species? NO! King Bob-omb's main role is being the leader of the Bob -ombs ; this role can change, but it's the primary one. With Naval Piranha, it's more of the same ; he has been constantly cataloged as a character through his appearances . Sometimes his origin changes, but he 's still Naval Piranha . There are hundreds of examples like this, such as Gomboss, which was previously called Goomba King, but for Mario 64 DS, his role, appearance, and history changed completely . Is it a different character ? Is there a kind of Goombas king? NO, it simply changed roles, just as King Boo from Luigi's Mansion is different from the normal King Boo . There are hundreds of examples like these. I mean, just look - Naval Piranha remembers his enmity with Yoshi in Tetris Attack; he still maintains his role as a boss in Yoshi's Woolly World, and his SMW2YI descriptions portray him as the lord of the Piranha Plants. He even has his own castle and sewer. The notion of notable members has no basis ; if subject B is derived from subject A, it does not mean that subject A should move from a character infobox to a species one. Sorbetti (talk) 20:02, August 24, 2025 (EDT)

Look. There's no source stating that the Naval Piranha in Mario Party Advance and Yoshi's Wooly World are the same ones as the SMMW2 Yoshi's Island ones in English or Japanese. The only things they have in common are their names (Naval Piranha and Big Piranha Plant) which were chosen because they have the same design as the Yoshi's Island Boss. That does not mean the trio are related. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 10:44, August 25, 2025 (EDT)

They are still characters, everything I wrote above proves it. Sorbetti (talk) 10:52, August 25, 2025 (EDT)

If it "proves it", this wouldn’t need a proposal. This is me, D-B-B! 23:41, August 26, 2025 (EDT)