MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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==Writing guidelines==
==Writing guidelines==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''


==New features==
==New features==
===A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' For Everyone===
''None at the moment.''
[[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|thumb|left|A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''.]]
I was sifting through new files the other day, and I happen to think "What could make this job better?" Well, the obvious answer was A [[Hamburger]] in ''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''.


So, I'm proposing that we have A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' available to any and all of our editors 24/7. Flavors include pie flavor and freedom (due to monitory constraints, it might be wise to limit ourselves to just those flavors). Further, these A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''s would be made and hand delivered by the A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' Button, using its, and I quote, "1337 wiki skillz".
==Removals==
===Trim the [[list of Snake's codec conversations]] and [[list of Palutena's Guidance conversations]]===
This is something that stuck out to me while I was adding profiles to [[Samus]]'s article. These articles, [[List of Snake's codec conversations]] and [[List of Palutena's Guidance conversations]], include the conversations for ''every'' fighter in the Super Smash Bros. series, even all the non-Super Mario characters. About a year ago, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/61#Trim the Smash Bros trophies page|a proposal]] to remove non-Super Mario trophies from the lists of [[Trophy (Super Smash Bros. series)|trophies]] passed with no opposition, and most, if not all, of the points brought up in that proposal also apply here. You can read that proposal if you want to see the arguments in full, but to summarize for this proposal:
*This content does not involve anything from Super Mario and its related franchises, it is purely flavor text about non-Mario characters spoken by non-Mario characters
*We have a precedent for trimming non-Mario Smash content
*Aside from the trivia, this content isn't original to this wiki, it's flavor text pulled straight from the game itself, and you would get the exact same content from just going to SmashWiki instead


Think about this for a moment. If out active users had a hot, fresh A Hamburger straight from ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' hand delivered to them while they edit....well, just think of the high quality articles that we would gain. A full, satisfied Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' is a power force.
With that in mind, I think the conversations for all non-Super Mario characters should be axed from these lists. The conversations for non-Mario characters that have their own articles, like [[Link]] and [[Samus]], would still be included in their profiles/statistics along with their trophies, since I think the question of whether or not those should also be removed is best saved for a separate proposal.


'''Proposer:''' {{User|Hewer|Hewbert P. Edia}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Dive Rocket Launcher}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' November 3, 2024, 15:00 EDT
'''Deadline''': June 26, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Delicious A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''====
====Trim the lists to only the conversations about characters from ''Super Mario'' and its related franchises====
#{{User|Hewer|Hewbert P. Edia}}
#{{User|Dive Rocket Launcher}} Per proposal.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} ADD HAMBURGER AND PIE! PLUS PINK BURGERS TO SATISFY PINK DONKEY KONG SENIOR(PS. I thought Pink DK Sr. was Cranky Kong in a color phase when TV turned from black and white to color) AND ALSO HAVE THEM IN EVERY SMASH PAGE, nay, EVERY MARIO WIKI PAGE!!!!!!!
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Hewer}} My first instinct was to think of moving the non-Mario conversations to the sections for each fighter in the fighter lists, but seeing as we didn't do that with other things like their trophies, it's sadly pretty hard to justify keeping a ton of dialogue about non-Mario characters said by non-Mario characters in a non-Mario setting.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal. For every Guidance/Codec call for an actually relevant character, such as the infamous Viridi speech about [[Piranha Plant]]s that has been outright cited in proposals that resulted in [[Petea Piranha|tangible splits]] [[Fiery Dino Piranha|or merges]], there's Snake's thoughts on Fox McCloud. Take a guess which one we think should stay, and which one we think should probably just stick to being covered on SSBWiki instead.
#{{User|Somethingone}} My thoughts are best summarized in that one essay I wrote for the character proposal<!--which I wrote completely during a car ride-->; if we trim ''Smash'' content to just Mario stuff in some areas, we should trim it that much in all areas.
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per all.
#{{User|Axis}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per proposer and others
#{{User|SeanWheeler}} On a Mario Wiki, we should keep the Smash content relevant to Mario.
#{{User|Mario}} Should be in the same way the [[Taunt]] page is now.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per all.


====No A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' for You (AKA TOO MUCH SMASH COVERAGE)====
====Do nothing====
#{{User|Hewer|Hewberger}} - This is pure nonsense.
#[[User:SolemnStormcloud|Pink Donkey Kong Sr.]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) {{color|No [https://boundedbybuns.com/recipes/r/hot-pink-cheeseburgers-the-barbie-burger pink burgers]? Not interested.|hotpink}}
#{{User|Arend}} Why not A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''?


====Comments====
====Comments====
I vote for A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' instead of A Hamburger in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''...
Relatedly, it's probably time we do something about [[List of Smash Taunt characters]] (perhaps a merge to the stage lists like what was done with the [[List of stages debuting in Super Smash Bros.#Multi-Man mode enemies|Multi-Man enemy teams]]). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:45, June 19, 2024 (EDT)


...er, yes, what exactly are you trying to say? {{User|Hewer|Hewberger}} 10:43, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
I'll be honest, I kinda think the Mario characters should ''also'' have this stuff moved to their profile & statistics sections. That feels more natural to me than making a page for something in Smash and then giving it incomplete coverage. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 19:07, June 19, 2024 (EDT)
 
==Removals==
===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]
 
'''Proposer''': [[User:Koopa con Carne|<nowiki>{{User|[enter your username here]}}</nowiki>]]<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "April 1, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]
 
====Support====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Hard agree from me. Such an attitude is of utmost salience in a community and should be deeply and proactively fostered to ensure not just the growth of this knowledge base, but the synergy between the registered userbase and readers.
#[[User:SolemnStormcloud|Pink Donkey Kong Sr.]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) {{color|I like this idea!|hotpink}}
#[[User:FanOfYoshi|Yoshi Hater]] ([[User talk:FanOfYoshi|talk]]) Such perfectly constructed arguments you got there! I agree with everything you said!
#{{User|Arend}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} This proposal honestly confused me. I saw it as a proposal to expand our coverage to everything Mario, which I support. And by everything Mario, I MEAN EVERYTHING MARIO!
 
====Oppose====
#{{User|Hewer|Hewbert P. Edia}} OK, I'm really confused. I don't understand this logic at all. How could anyone come to that conclusion with this little official evidence? And what would happen to pages like [[Special:Random|this]] if this dumb proposal were to pass? Hard oppose from me, let's keep this wiki reliable as a source of information. EDIT: For some extra clarity, I want to be very clear that I still oppose this proposal. It feels hastily written and doesn't fully consider the whole situation, so the result would be pretty messy. I might support an option to only make half of the changes if it was added, though, since I can somewhat see the argument for those.
#{{User|BMfan08|XDfan17}} [long, well-thought counter-argument that everyone ignores because there are more support votes]
 
====Comments====
@Hewbert P. Edia the proposal literally states that the article you mention won't be affected. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 09:19, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
:My bad, I should've read the proposal more closely. I'm still opposing, though, because I still think the idea of just suddenly making a change like this is pretty stupid. I've edited my vote to be clearer. {{User|Hewer|Hewbert P. Edia}} 09:41, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
{{@|XDFan17}} You didn't read the proposal.{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 09:41, April 1, 2024 (CST)
:Yes I did, otherwise I wouldn't have a reason to oppose it. {{User|BMfan08|XDfan17}}


==Changes==
==Changes==
===Trim ''Super Smash Bros.'' navigational templates===
===Include general game details on pages about remakes, and split "changes from the original" sections if necessary===
Over time, this wiki has, with good reason, significantly reduced its coverage of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series. However, as has been the subject of multiple other proposals, there are a lot of vestigial remnants left over from when ''Smash'' still received full coverage.
An issue I've noticed with MarioWiki's coverage of remakes is that it doesn't explain much about the games themselves separate from the original games. This really concerns [[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)|''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' (Nintendo Switch)]], as its "Changes from the original game" section is very, ''very'' long (over three-quarters the page, by my count), while not really detailing anything about the game itself. I do understand the "once and only once" policy means that they shouldn't have to be exact duplicates of the original game's pages, but it also leaves the pages about remakes feeling somewhat barebones; if someone wants to learn about the ''TTYD'' remake in a general sense, should they have to go back to the original game's page to learn about it first and ''then'' go to the remake's page to dig through all the tiny changes to find out what's new?
 
One of the most prominent and blatant cases of this is found in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' navigational templates, namely [[Template:SSB]], [[Template:SSB moves]], [[Template:SSBM]], [[Template:SSBM moves]], [[Template:SSB4]], [[Template:SSB4 moves]], [[Template:SSBU]], and [[Template:SSBU moves]].
 
Each of these templates contains links to subjects that no longer have dedicated articles, and take the reader to a subsection of a list article instead. The "move" templates are especially rough, since the majority of ''Smash Bros.'' moves are no longer even covered on the articles that these links redirect to. I propose that these navigational templates should be ''significantly'' trimmed down, much like the ongoing efforts to clean up the various "series" categories.
 
Furthermore, without the unnecessary links to subjects that no longer are within this wiki's scope, having moves in a separate template from the main navigational template for those games may no longer be necessary, so it might also make sense to remove the "move" templates entirely, moving the links to ''Super Mario''-related ''Smash Bros.'' moves to the main ''Smash'' navigational templates.


'''Proposer''': {{User|JanMisali}}<br>
I imagine this policy stems from early in the wiki's history for games like ''[[Super Mario All-Stars]]'' or ''[[Super Mario Advance]]'', which makes sense, as those games are generally simple and don't need much explaining to get the gist of how they work (and the "changes" parts of those pages are generally much smaller). For games like the [[Super Mario RPG (Nintendo Switch)|''Super Mario RPG'']] or ''TTYD'' remakes, however, it's pretty difficult to understand what the games are like without referencing the original game's pages, and in turn that leaves coverage on the remakes feeling somewhat incomplete. I actually feel like the ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]'' page is a good example of how to handle this. It still lists differences from the original ''[[Mario Kart 8]]'', but also explains the game's contents in a standalone manner well. (Maybe adding the rest of the new items and course elements would help, but it at least has the full cast, vehicle selection, and course roster.)
'''Deadline''': April 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Remove all redirect links from ''Super Smash Bros.'' navigational templates====
My proposal is essentially to have each remake page include general coverage of the game itself, rather than just a list of changes. From there, if each page is too long with general details and lists of changes included, then the list of changes can be split into a sub-page.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Second choice, per proposal.


====Remove all redirect links from ''Super Smash Bros.'' navigational templates ''and'' delete the "move" templates entirely====
I don't think the remake pages need to be exact copies of what the pages for each original game say, but having them be a more general overview of how each game works (covering notable changes as well) before getting into the finer differences may be helpful. I represent WiKirby, and this is what we do for WiKirby's remake pages: for example, we have separate pages for ''[[wikirby:Kirby's Return to Dream Land|Kirby's Return to Dream Land]]'' and ''[[wikirby:Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe|Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe]]'' that both give a good idea of what the game is like without fully relying on each other to note differences between them. I think this is useful for not having to cross-reference both pages if you want to know the full picture of what the game is like.
#{{User|JanMisali}} First choice, per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Honestly surprised this hasn't been done sooner. Per all.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} per proposal
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Please do. The excessive amounts of ''Super Smash Bros.'' coverage is a huge pet peeve of mine, since it hinders accessibility for ''Super Mario'' content.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per all, thank you very much.


====Do nothing====
This is my first proposal on this wiki, and in general I'm not good at proposals even on my "home" wiki, but I hope this explains what I mean. I think you can decide on a page-by-page basis whether "changes from the original" sections need to split into sub-pages (for instance, the very long ''TTYD'' section might, but something like ''Super Mario Advance'' could get by leaving it on), but I think having the remake's pages be more detailed and less reliant on the originals would only be beneficial to the quality of the wiki's coverage. This is admittedly just a suggestion, so if it's not ideal I'm fine if someone else wants to refine it into something more workable.


 
'''Proposer''': {{User|DryKirby64}}<br>
====Comments====
'''Deadline''': <s>June 17, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to June 24, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to July 1, 2024, 23:59 GMT
You forgot the navigational templates for ''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]'', [[Template:SSBB]] and [[Template:SSBB moves]]. [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 12:11, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
:Ah, so I did. Yes, those would also be covered by this. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 13:15, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
 
===Forbid the use of images without captioning them===
This proposal aims to ban the use of images without captions, both in text and galleries. It's for a similar reason as why one should add a reason when adding a maintenance template, and without it, unfamiliar readers may ask themselves, "What's the subject? What does it do? What's it trying to illustrate?"
 
I looked around for an example, and I'll use the [[Icicle]] page. Quite a few sections add sprites without captioning them. While the section heading alone would be enough to suggest that it's a sprite from the game, additional context could be at risk of being left out. ''Mario Bros.'' has been re-released many times, so when I see the icicle sprite, I may ask myself, "What version is it from? The arcade? The NES? The Game Boy Advance?" While it's true that sprites can't easily display captions, due to being small images, there could be a way to make it easier to caption them.
 
This problem also applies to infoboxes. On the [[Itsunomanika Heihō]] page, what's going on in the infobox image? There's so many things in it, and it doesn't make clear who Itsunomanika Heihō is, which is the Shy Guy.
 
On a bit of a side note, too many articles have images that feel added in the text just for the sake of adding images, and captionless images seem among them. Why does the [[Lubba]] page have three images in the ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' section? Are they essential enough to be included or could they just be addendums to a gallery? Two of the images are just Lubba saying a quote, something that's hardly as much of interest as, let's say, Mario's first meeting with Lubba. Should this proposal pass, perhaps a separate proposal, or a precedent, could be set for tightening the use of images in article sections unless they are plot-essential, show a major difference between games, or for historical context, such as when something first appeared.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
====Support====
<s>#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} As proposer.</s>
#{{User|DryKirby64}} As proposer.
#{{User|Big Super Mario Fan}} I agree with this proposal.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} This is a great idea.


====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{User|Tails777}} Forbidding is a strong conclusion if you ask me. Simply adding a caption or moving images to a gallery is enough rather than just outright forbidding a captionless image.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I'm unsure what the best approach is to covering rereleases or remakes, but I do not think we should adopt WiKirby's model of repeating most of the same information as the original game.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per Tails777. This would be a pretty big policy change, and it would be better to handle it on a case-by-case basis.
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Opposing this particular solution, but agreeing that a solution to inadequate remake pages should be found.
#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} It's really not a big deal at all if there are a few images without captions. If you think one is necessary, then there's nothing stopping you from adding one but making this a strict policy is going too far.
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} Per all.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all; we really ought to take these on a case-by-case basis, as while some of these instances are not clear like the ''Mario Bros.'' Icicle image... Other captionless images on that very same article, like the ''Mario Clash'' Icicle are very much clear enough as-is since ''Clash'' only ever had one platform it released on. And the [[Itsunomanika Heihō]] infobox really just needs a new image outright if you ask us; if the image used cropped out the Bandit and Baby Mario and ''giant in-game arrow pointing at them'', leaving the Shy Guy on Yoshi's back as the focal point, you'd fix the vast majority of the clarity issues. <small>(of course, don't go updating the image itself, as it's used on other articles, instead this'd have to be a new image.)</small>
#{{User|Scrooge200}} I don't think WiKirby is a good example -- of anything. I would be interested in something else to improve the remake pages though.
#{{User|PnnyCrygr}} Best add a caption to the image sans caption, or just move it to a gallery page. Per all.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per all, a blanket ban on uncaptioned images would do more harm than good. It'd be better to just fix the cases that ''are'' unclear.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Abso-huckin'-''lutely'' not.  The amount of times I've had to remove a caption from a tiny, tiny image that can't even support a caption I can't even count.
#{{user|YoYo}} oh please. i dont think i need to explain - but the comment below does perfectly.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all, some images needing captions doesn't mean they all do.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all. Also see the comments; trying to add a caption to a tiny game sprite says it all.
#{{User|Arend}} Yeah no, per all. Some images are just too tiny to add a caption to (tiny images being something this Icicle article that's being brought up is ''chock full'' of), but also too essential for a section to be outright removed. Doc perfectly demonstrates that in the comment section.
#{{User|Mario}} The ideal way to proceed with this is either make caption interesting or remove the caption and let the image do the talking.
#{{User|MegaBowser64}} We should be working on captioning images that need it, not putting an umbrella ban over every image! This idea is more destructive that constructive, images are always good for context, even if they don't have written context themselves.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} As Don Lino from Shark Tale said it best... "Are you kidding me, are you outta your MIND?!". Per all.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Image captions ''are'' generally helpful, but one would find that published textbooks do not even do this consistently, and for good reason. An image can sometimes be confidently contextualized just by the text it is next to. To impose a rule like this can potentially worsen some articles. Additionally, I think a rule like this is too heavy-handed and weakens our editorial discretion.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} As noted by Doc, our current modus operandi with the sprites directly collides with this policy, and redoing all the sprites at double or triple the resolution in every axis just to make the caption readable is time consuming and arguably not even that correct in terms of presenting what the sprite originally looked like.


====Comments====
====Comments====
[[File:SMB Goomba Sprite.gif|frame|left|In what universe is this even remotely acceptable? You can't even read it!]]
This is challenging. Whereas I agree with you that the TTYD remake page is basically just a list of changes (and that is something that should be addressed), I don't think that simply rewording most everything on the original TTYD page is the solution. When it comes to RPGs, its much more challenging to fully cover everything in the game because there's a long, detailed story and it would be senseless to reword what is on the original's page to include it on the remake's page. I presume that's what you mean by "general coverage of the game" anyway. This is a problem that should be addressed, but I don't know that either of these two options are the right solution. {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 18:51, June 10, 2024 (EDT)
Please tell me how the image to the left is ideal. Because that's what this proposal's trying for. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:52, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
:Mmhm, that makes sense. Like I said, I don't think it should be an exact duplicate of the original page or a paraphrase of it either... Maybe there's a place where I could discuss this with other users to get a better idea of what others think should be done? I went to proposals first since that's what I'm most familiar with, but maybe it would be helpful to iron out the exact issue a bit more to get a better idea of what to do. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 19:21, June 10, 2024 (EDT)
:In my argument in the proposal, I was talking about like a template or something that could use captions in such cases. Multiframe now comes to mind. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:08, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
::It couldn't hurt to ask for some guidance from staff on the Discord / forums or research previous proposals to see if something similar has been discussed. You're right to identify this as an issue; I just wish I knew a better solution. Maybe someone will come along with a helpful comment, so I'd at least recommend leaving this proposal up to bring attention to the issue. {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 19:28, June 10, 2024 (EDT)
::Which adds a lot of dead space in the image space itself. I'm fine with using that when they'd blend with the default background (see: [[Spray Fish]]), but using them for captions is superfluous. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:36, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
:::Me personally, I'd repeat gameplay information because that's the thing that's actually changed, whereas story isn't touched at all afaik. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 12:52, June 16, 2024 (EDT)
:::Yeah, padded whitespace makes the page look relatively bigger when actually there is no content. It sucks for an article to have superfluous space created by overly long captions in floated tiny images. When creating an article, an article should look nice. {{User:PnnyCrygr/sig}} 18:39, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
{{br}}
I want to revisit this proposal to ask about the Icicle example... you say that a lack of caption would result in additional context being left out, to which I ask.... what additional context is there to a sprite of an icicle? Adding captions would simply make it extremely repetitive. "An icicle in Super Mario Bros 3" ... "An icicle in Super Mario World" ... "An icicle in..." and so on. {{User:RealStuffMister/sig}} 10:27, March 29, 2024 (EDT)
:TBF the game Mario Bros. has a slew of versions across different systems, so in that particular icicle example it'd be beneficial to state which version it comes from. Not even the sprite's file page states the exact source. If it's a small sprite, surely there's some parameter that widens its frame to fit a caption, right? I could be wrong. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:41, March 29, 2024 (EDT)
::In that case, alt text would probably be preferable. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:22, March 29, 2024 (EDT)
::For the ''Mario Bros.'' section in specific, I think it would be beneficial to apply a Multiframe in order to include Icicle sprites across all applicable versions of ''Mario Bros.'' (similar to what's done with the ''Super Mario Maker'' section). We'd probably have to scour through many spritesheets for that, since this wiki seemingly only has the icicle sprite from the arcade version.<br>As for the other sections that only include a sprite, I agree that including a caption to those might also be too repetitive, on top of the image being too small. {{User:Arend/sig}} 07:04, March 30, 2024 (EDT)


===Allow our BJAODN pages to be Featured Articles===
I think the case-by-case way we do it is fine. For instance, the SMA games and DKC remakes have enough changes both major and minor it makes the most sense to just list everything out again, which in the latters' case we do (thanks to a project of mine). But listing everything in ''Super Mario 3D All-Stars'' would be over-the-top when that's just a fidelity increase for ''three'' games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:34, June 13, 2024 (EDT)
Our Featured Articles have always been about showing everyone what true too standards for quality articles look like. Articles that show the best writing and such. But I also believe that another good way of showing what our best looks like is by also showing what our bad jokes or other deleted nonsense looks like. Therefore I propose that we allow all our bad jokes and other deleted nonsense to have the opportunity to join the ranks as some of our best articles! Sure, they have to pass a nomination first, but let’s give our worst a fighting chance!


'''Proposer:''' [[User:Tails777|User:Heads333]]<br>
In my eyes, the change list for ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]'' is very massive, despite my occasional efforts to subcategorize its change list. I could continue to try to compress that page's list, but even I would not call that a gold standard for "Remake changes" lists. [[User:DandelionSprout|DandelionSprout]] ([[User talk:DandelionSprout|talk]]) 17:00, June 15, 2024 (EDT)
'''Deadline:''' Tomorrow


====Let’s Do It (Support)====
Just as someone who does go on other wikis to read up about remake information, I actually sometimes don't mind somewhat overlapping information than simply a list of changes (I don't like to hop back in between articles to read up information, especially if, say, the remake is the first time I'm ever experiencing the game). It's the reason I did sorta go all in in [[Mario Sports Superstars]] article (I wouldn't want to jump to two different pages to read mechanics about tennis and golf). I think a very brief summary of the gameplay for TTYD remake would do fine (basic battle system, hammers, jump, partners, that type of thing). {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 12:50, June 16, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} YES PLEASE NO DISCRIMINATION OF PAGES!!
#[[User:SolemnStormcloud|Pink Donkey Kong Sr.]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) {{color|If it means [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Junior (II)|my son]] will get his chance in the spotlight, I'll consider it.|hotpink}}
#{{User|Hewer|Hewbert P. Edia}} How will anyone be able to tell what's good if we keep suppressing the bad?


====Are you Crazy? (Oppose)====
Just for reference, the current size of the ''TTYD'' remake page is actually larger than the size of the original page (190,141 bytes vs. 185,302 bytes). {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 23:45, June 20, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|Tails777}} I dunno who this Heads333 guy is, be he might be nuts.


====Whoa, slow down. Let’s talk about this (Comments)====
===Split ''Wario Land: Shake It!'' bosses into boss levels===
This proposal is similar to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/41#Create separate articles for DKC series and DKL series boss levels|the one that passed]]. As you see, we have [[Motley Bossblob]] and [[Hisstocrat]] boss levels from ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'', the boss levels from the [[Donkey Kong Country (series)|''Donkey Kong Country'' series]], even boss levels ''[[Yoshi's Crafted World]]'' where each boss guards a [[Dream Gem]]. Right now, you might be wondering how we can create separate articles for the ''[[Wario Land: Shake It!]]'' boss levels.


==={{color|Restore [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Junior (II)|my son's]] page|hotpink}}===
According to the "<boss> → <boss level>" diagram, the following pages will be affected by the split:
[[File:Donkey Kong SSB4 Artwork - Pink.jpg|thumb|{{color|This is me. No, it's not any grandson from the future — [[Cranky Kong|why would you think that?]]|hotpink}}]]
{{color|Unforgivable. [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Junior (II)|My son]] had been training all year long for that [[Donkey Kong Jr. Math|math competition]], and you Super Mario Wiki users sweep his achievements under the rug? Treat him as the same person as [[Donkey Kong|the host's]] [[Donkey Kong Jr.|son]]?! ''Despicable''.|hotpink}}


{{color|To this end, I have captured one of the users who had mocked Pink Donkey Kong Jr., [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]], and seized control of his account. I propose that you users are to restore my son's page. If you decide against this, I will throw SolemnStormcloud into the same river the math competition was set at — which is now infested with [[Klaptrap]]s. I am only giving you one day let your friend live. If you truly care about my son, this shouldn't be difficult.|hotpink}}
*[[Rollanratl]] → [[Rollanratl Battle]]
*[[Hot Roderick]] → [[Hot Roderick Race]]
*[[Chortlebot]] → [[Chortlebot Challenge]]
*[[Bloomsday]] → [[Bloomsday Blowout]]
*[[Large Fry]] → [[Large Fry Cook-Off]]
*[[Shake King]] [[VS the Shake King]]


{{color|*sigh* I need a {{wp|Musa velutina|pink banana}}...|hotpink}}
Once this proposal passes, then we will be able to create separate articles for the ''Wario Land: Shake It!'' boss levels.


'''Proposer''': <s>{{User|SolemnStormcloud}}</s> [[User:SolemnStormcloud|Pink Donkey Kong Sr.]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]])<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}} (banned)<br>
'''Deadline''': April 2, 2024, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline''': <s>June 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to July 2, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
====Support====
#[[User:SolemnStormcloud|Pink Donkey Kong Sr.]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) {{color|The ''only'' correct choice.|hotpink}}
#{{User|Hewer}} I guess this makes sense for consistency with coverage of other games, so per proposal.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} are you strawberry flavored? i want to lick your fur
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} I don't think this should even have to go through a proposal. All the other boss levels have their own pages.
#:This you? [[File:SMBW Talking Flower Artwork 3.png|50px]] {{User|Hewer|Hewbert P. Edia}} 09:20, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per proposal; it makes navigation easier and lines up with how we already handle it for other games. (And for the record, short articles are fine: see [[Bowser's Sourpuss Bread]], which succinctly explains its role rather than being padded out for length concerns.)
#[[User:FanOfYoshi|Yoshi Hater]] ([[User talk:FanOfYoshi|talk]]) PINKY! THE PINKEST OF THE PINK!
<s>#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Per proposal</s>
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} GOTTA RESTORE RESTORE RESTORE!!!!!!!!!


====Oppose====
====Oppose====


====Comments====
====Comments====
You heard him! Just vote to support and let me free! I don't wanna be Klaptrap food! [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 08:45, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
Wouldn't this be creating a bunch of stub articles? Is there sufficient information for all of these characters outside of their battles to warrant separate pages from their battles? For some bosses, I think this makes sense and I also think its good for the wiki to be consistent, but are we solving one "problem" and then creating twelve more by making twelve stub articles? {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 22:16, June 19, 2024 (EDT)
:Looking at "[[Special:ShortPages|Short Pages]], when it isn't being filled with small disambiguation articles, articles with imminent deletions, or ''[[Mario Kart Arcade GP]]'' items, even the shortest Wario articles don't really come close to the articles featured here. The shortest Wario-related article we could find isn't even as short as the recently-split ''[[Speed Mario Bros.]]''. While we aren't personally voting (we'd like to see an example draft of what the split articles look like before voting conclusively), we don't feel like article length is a particularly strong reason to be afraid when [[Pesky Billboard]] is an article so small that you could fit its textual content in a floppy disk's boot sector. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 23:46, June 19, 2024 (EDT)
:Also, "stub" doesn't mean "short page", it means "page with too little information". If there's not a lot to talk about, then it's perfectly fine for a page to be short and still be complete, so brevity doesn't automatically make it a stub. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 04:11, June 20, 2024 (EDT)


==Miscellaneous==
===Standardize sectioning for ''Super Mario'' series game articles===
===Plant a tree for every article we have===
I have been attempting to standardize the game articles for the ''[[Super Mario (series)|Super Mario]]'' series on and off for the past few years. I think presenting information in a shared, unified way is beneficial for readers and passively communicates that these games are part of a shared series, something I think is helpful for a franchise covering so many genres and series. Game articles in the ''[[Yoshi's Island (series)|Yoshi's Island]]'' and ''[[Donkey Kong Country (series)|Donkey Kong Country]]'' series are similarly organized to one another. It is easy to jump from one article to another, information is where I'd expect it to be, and they look nice. Good stuff.
Let's face it: the world is dying, thanks to global warming and stuff. Best to prolong the inevitable death as much as we can with all the power we've got, and what better way to do that than planting trees?
 
This proposal seeks to rectify the pollution from the big corporations by making the Super Mario Wiki the greenest wiki there is... by planting a tree for ''every single article we have''! This would result in approximately 28,521+ fresh trees. Not only that, but I also propose that we should plant a tree for every new article we create as well (hence the + at the aforementioned page count). This would add the incentive to not only create more articles, but ''also'' to save the world little by little. Two for the price of one!


Note that I'm only counting content pages here. If we're counting ''every'' page (talk pages, user pages, etc.), we'd have to plant approximately 320,705+ trees, which frankly might be a ''tad'' too cumbersome. Hence I'm not basing the number of trees to be planted on uploaded files (211,489+), total edit count (4,013,837+) or the amount of words in content pages (13,986,672+) either.
At present, some ''Super Mario'' game articles adopt different organizational structures than others even though they cover the same types of subjects. (As examples, compare ''[[Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins]]'' to ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Bros. Wonder]]''.) This proposal aims to standardize how they are all sectioned. I think it would be beneficial for their contents.


Now who's ready to save the planet?
The sectioning I employ, in the order as laid out, is:


'''Proposer''': {{User|Arend}}<br>
'''Characters''': living/sapient/friendly/neutral subjects that do not cause harm
'''Deadline''': April 1, 2024, 23:59 GMT
* '''Playable characters''': characters controlled
* '''Non-playable characters''': characters that aren’t controlled
'''Enemies and obstacles''': subjects that damage or inhibit the player character
* '''Enemies''': living, often multi-membered creatures that occupy the general environment
* '''Obstacles''': abiotic and environmental subjects that cause damage or inhibit movement
* '''Bosses''': subjects that often take multiple hits to defeat and are chiefly major barriers to progression
'''Items and objects''': beneficial and neutral environmental subjects, mostly abiotic
* '''Items''': subjects that are absorbable/collectible, holdable, or health-restoring
* '''Power-ups''': items that transform the player character’s appearance and grant unique abilities
* '''Objects''': interactable subjects in the environment that are not items


====Support====
This sectioning arrangement has been integrated on the ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'', ''[[Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels]]'', ''[[Super Mario Land]]'', ''[[Super Mario 64]]'', ''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'', ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'', ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]'', ''[[Super Mario 3D Land]]'', ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'', and ''[[Super Mario Odyssey]]'' articles.
#{{User|Arend}} Let's save planet Earth!
#{{User|Tails777}} All for expanding the [[Woody Woods]]!
#[[User:SolemnStormcloud|Pink Donkey Kong Sr.]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) {{color|We could use more ''{{wp|Musa velutina}}'' trees.|hotpink}}
#[[User:FanOfYoshi|Yoshi Hater]] ([[User talk:FanOfYoshi|talk]]) The Lorax would be proud!
#{{User|Nintendo101}} [[File:SMS Asset Sprite MP Tree (Right).gif|25px]] [[File:SMS Asset Sprite MP Tree (Left).gif|25px]]
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} SAVE THE TREES, END THE GREENHOUSE EFFECT!


====Oppose====
Because of the tactile nature of platformers, I like organizing subjects based on their mechanical relationship to the player character, so I keep bosses organized with enemies and obstacles because they all hurt the player. It is also thematically appropriate, because at least some bosses are usually rulers of an enemy species in the same section. I do not like using terms that have strong connotations outside of gaming like "cast" or "antagonist". (I particularly do not like using "antagonist" here because these platformers are not chiefly driven by narrative, so the fact that some bosses also serve antagonistic narrative roles is of lesser importance to their tactile roles as bosses.) "Characters" is more neutral, I think. I also do not separate "returning enemies" from "new ones". I'd rather delineate that information in one shared table, [[Super Mario Galaxy#Enemies|like so]]. It keeps related enemy species next to each other regardless of whether they're new.


====Comments====
I don't envision this sectioning being applied rigidly, and this is apparent in some of the articles I linked to above. There aren't really enough items in ''Super Mario Land'' for them to be severed from power-ups, so I lumped them together in one table there. Both ''Super Mario Sunshine'' and ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' include a "rideable characters" section, and there is a "clothing" section between "Items" and "objects" in ''Super Mario Odyssey''. Rather, I would like this sectioning to be a jumping off point, from which users can manipulate and change things as needed. No two games are exactly the same, after all.
===Ban any mention of OOSAPION FROM THE WIKI===
That's right! Usapyon is an asshole! Yes, uSAPYON FROM yOKAI wATCH! Why? Because... In 2D artwork, he CONSTANTLY GRINS WITH TEETH, '''BUT HIS TEETH NEVER EXIST IN 3D/CGI, EVER§''' This is simply uncacepptable! Usapyon should be held accountable for this heinous crime on only reserving this to the 2D realm and withholding it in 3D/CGI... Actually, that applies to pretty much ANY Anime character who make facial expressions such as swirly eyes, heart eyes, star eyes and so on and so forth exclusively in 2D and never CGI (the 2D-3D inconsnstency crime) (looking at YOU, Ash Ketchum, my fictional counterpart!) We shall fight for 2D-3D consistency! And if i don't have a picture of Usapyon with teeth in 3D/CGI by tomorrow, i will riot against these characters! You hear me?


Proposer: [[User:FanOfYoshi|A passionate hater of the green dinosaur, of course]]
I offer four options.
====Ban YOUSAPAION!====
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} [https://img.ifunny.co/images/684be5ce34192097ccbf1117773c89e38137078f640294a0f746ded8add994a4_1.jpg A rare picture of me (Larry) directly berating Usapyon (pATRICK)]
#{{User|Arend}} Shouldn't be too difficult since USApyon has barely any relevance here aside from sharing his Japanese name with that of [[Bunny Spring|an unrelated enemy that's about a decade older]], right?
====Ban every anime character who makes '''''these''''' facial expressions in 2D, but never 3D/CGI====
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} [https://img.ifunny.co/images/684be5ce34192097ccbf1117773c89e38137078f640294a0f746ded8add994a4_1.jpg Same as above, but not limited to just Usapyon]
====Wario====
#{{User|Hewer|Hewario}} Get Wario'd! [[File:Bubblewario.jpg|50px]]
#{{User|Tails777}} Wah
#[[User:SolemnStormcloud|Pink Donkey Kong Sr.]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) {{color|[[Kirby]] who? [[Wario-Man]] is the real pink hero!|hotpink}} [[File:WWDIYSWarioManSprite.png|50px]]
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} DOWN WITH ANIME! EVEN WARIO IS BETTER, AND EVEN HE SUCKS, AND THAT'S SAYING SOMETHING!
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Anime Hater}} I AGREE WITH {{@|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


====NOOO, LET THEM LIVE====
#'''Support: I like this! Let's do it''' (if this passes, this sectioning arrangement will be integrated into the remaining ''Super Mario'' game articles)
====Trash talk====
#'''Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently''' (if this one passes, a second proposal would be raised by the voters that outline their preferred organizational scheme)
Need some clarification on the Wario option. It first stated "Ban Wario", now it just says "Wario", and so all supporters are voting it because they want Wario to stay. {{User:Arend/sig}} 10:22, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
#'''Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy''' (this option is basically the "do nothing" option)
:Eh, Wario isn't Anime. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 09:28, April 1, 2024 (CST)
#'''Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed'''
::I just thought it'd be funnier to simply have the word Wario without anything specific lol --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:31, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::KEEP WARIO! BAN ANIME! {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Anime Hater}} 13:35, March 26, 2024 (CST)


===Are the enemies in SMB2 literal créations of Wart, or simply residents of Subcon who happened to have been corrupted by him?===
'''Proposer''': {{User|Nintendo101}}<br>
Ok, you might think this debate is stupid as shit, but hear me out:
'''Deadline''': June 3rd, 2024, 23:59 GMT
Multiple enemies, such as Shy Guys, Birdoes, Ninjis and many others have reappeared in régions outside of Subcon, and Shy Guys and Snifits existed in Yoshi's Island, a game canonically set long before the events of SMB2, so there's a lingering question: Were the ones seen in SMB2 simply corrupted, or outright créated? Oh and if you're gonna argue that Shy Guys and Bob Ombs popped into existence from short, shallow jars, then maybe Wart tampered with the very way they come into existence?


Option 1: You agree that they used to be residents of Subcon until Wart corrupted them, and that Fry Guy was the only one brought into existence/life.
====Support: I like this! Let's do it====
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Consistency is never a bad thing.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Hewer}} I guess if this ought to be a proposal, then sure, per proposal.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per proposal


Option 2: Self-explanatory
====Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently====


Option 3: You can use that as both a vote, and/or comment section.
====Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy====
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - I see page layouts as an organically changing thing, it's best to not create guidelines where they needn't exist. I'm fine with the pages being changed to follow this pattern, but it shouldn't require an additional proposal to change further.


Proposer: [[User:FanOfYoshi|HaterOfYoshi]] (aka HOY)
====Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed====
====They were corrupted!====
#[[User:FanOfYoshi|HaterOfYoshi]] ([[User talk:FanOfYoshi|stalk]]) You can't convince me otherwise!
#[[User:SolemnStormcloud|Pink Donkey Kong Sr.]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) [[File:ShyguyPinkLeft.gif]] {{color|The pink Shyguys are innocent. End of story.|hotpink}}
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} THEY ALL INNOCENT!


====Most of them didn't even exist at all until Wart came along!====
====Comments on standardize sectioning for ''Super Mario'' series game articles====
#{{User|Arend}} [https://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Nintendo_NES/manual/Formated/Super_Mario_Bros._2_-_1986_-_Nintendo.pdf The manual] literally states that Wart "created monsters by playing with the dream machine", therefor we can conclude that not all of Wart's minions in the game were peaceful residents. The manual also mentions the [[8 bits]] as a "club of evil dreams", which is mentioned in the descriptions for Shyguy and Snifit, which means these are ''definitely'' creations of Wart, despite their appearances outside of Subcon (or they were always evil to begin with). Other creatures created by Wart or related to making evil dreams/destroying good dreams are Ninji, Pidgit, Panser, Autobomb, Mouser, and Fryguy, the first two having also appeared outside of Subcon. the ONLY creatures that are confirmed to have been residents prior to Wart's takeover are Albatoss, and maybe Trouter and Ostro. The fact that many of these creature that have been confirmed to be Wart's creations just so happen to have existed outside of Subcon before doesn't mean they were corrupted at all, but rather, it means a retcon instead.
These sound like good ideas, but do they need a proposal? Proposal rule 15: "Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages." {{User:Hewer/sig}} 19:39, June 26, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|Hewer|Hewbert P. Edia}} Nah, not a retcon, Wart's just a plagiarist with unoriginal character designs
:I originally did not plan on doing so, but {{User|EvieMaybe}} recommended I raise one. I supposed it was a good way to assess how other folks think game articles should be organized. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:45, June 26, 2024 (EDT)


====How about we discuss the reason(s) as to why Wart felt compelled to corrupt Subcon instead?====
==Miscellaneous==
{{@|Arend}} WHAT DA FAQ YOU TALKIN ABOUT WILLIS!? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 09:29, April 1, 2024 (CST)
''None at the moment.''
:{{@|Arend}} You do realize that this manual was written by Americans and not Japanese? Not all info is bound to be 100% correct! Besides, "création" isn't always used in the literal sense, it can sometimes be used figuratively! --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:41, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
::@HaterOfYoshi Yes I agree. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 09:43, April 1, 2024 (CST)
::Well, considering that ''SMB2'' was created ''for'' Americans (with the Japanese version, ''Super Mario USA'' not releasing until years later), and it being made from [[Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic|a game with a completely different story]], I assumed this ''was'' the original lore for these characters in the ''Super Mario'' franchise. Though, [https://vgtranslations.blogspot.com/2014/12/super-mario-usa-manual.html if the translation of this blog is to be believed], things are relatively the same inbetween ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' and ''Super Mario USA'' anyway. Now I do kinda wish I had the Doki Doki Panic manual at hand... {{User:Arend/sig}} 10:54, April 1, 2024 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 10:16, June 27, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page

Current time:
Thursday, June 27th, 23:33 GMT

Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
  10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail with a margin of at least three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.


===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "June 27, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====


Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)
Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Remove profiles and certain other content related to the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia from the wiki, Koopa con Carne (ended April 30, 2024)
Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Get rid of the "Subject origin" parameter on the species infobox, DrippingYellow (ended June 25, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
^ NOTE: Currently the subject of an active proposal.
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Split Mario's Time Machine (Nintendo Entertainment System), or the Super Nintendo Entertainment version along with both console versions of Mario is Missing!, LinkTheLefty (ended April 11, 2024)
Remove non-Super Mario content from Super Smash Bros. series challenges articles, BMfan08 (ended May 3, 2024)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

Trim the list of Snake's codec conversations and list of Palutena's Guidance conversations

This is something that stuck out to me while I was adding profiles to Samus's article. These articles, List of Snake's codec conversations and List of Palutena's Guidance conversations, include the conversations for every fighter in the Super Smash Bros. series, even all the non-Super Mario characters. About a year ago, a proposal to remove non-Super Mario trophies from the lists of trophies passed with no opposition, and most, if not all, of the points brought up in that proposal also apply here. You can read that proposal if you want to see the arguments in full, but to summarize for this proposal:

  • This content does not involve anything from Super Mario and its related franchises, it is purely flavor text about non-Mario characters spoken by non-Mario characters
  • We have a precedent for trimming non-Mario Smash content
  • Aside from the trivia, this content isn't original to this wiki, it's flavor text pulled straight from the game itself, and you would get the exact same content from just going to SmashWiki instead

With that in mind, I think the conversations for all non-Super Mario characters should be axed from these lists. The conversations for non-Mario characters that have their own articles, like Link and Samus, would still be included in their profiles/statistics along with their trophies, since I think the question of whether or not those should also be removed is best saved for a separate proposal.

Proposer: Dive Rocket Launcher (talk)
Deadline: June 26, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Trim the lists to only the conversations about characters from Super Mario and its related franchises

  1. Dive Rocket Launcher (talk) Per proposal.
  2. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per proposal.
  3. Hewer (talk) My first instinct was to think of moving the non-Mario conversations to the sections for each fighter in the fighter lists, but seeing as we didn't do that with other things like their trophies, it's sadly pretty hard to justify keeping a ton of dialogue about non-Mario characters said by non-Mario characters in a non-Mario setting.
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per proposal. For every Guidance/Codec call for an actually relevant character, such as the infamous Viridi speech about Piranha Plants that has been outright cited in proposals that resulted in tangible splits or merges, there's Snake's thoughts on Fox McCloud. Take a guess which one we think should stay, and which one we think should probably just stick to being covered on SSBWiki instead.
  5. Somethingone (talk) My thoughts are best summarized in that one essay I wrote for the character proposal; if we trim Smash content to just Mario stuff in some areas, we should trim it that much in all areas.
  6. DrBaskerville (talk) Per all.
  7. Axis (talk) Per proposal.
  8. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per proposer and others
  9. SeanWheeler (talk) On a Mario Wiki, we should keep the Smash content relevant to Mario.
  10. Mario (talk) Should be in the same way the Taunt page is now.
  11. Nintendo101 (talk) Per all.

Do nothing

Comments

Relatedly, it's probably time we do something about List of Smash Taunt characters (perhaps a merge to the stage lists like what was done with the Multi-Man enemy teams). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:45, June 19, 2024 (EDT)

I'll be honest, I kinda think the Mario characters should also have this stuff moved to their profile & statistics sections. That feels more natural to me than making a page for something in Smash and then giving it incomplete coverage. Ahemtoday (talk) 19:07, June 19, 2024 (EDT)

Changes

Include general game details on pages about remakes, and split "changes from the original" sections if necessary

An issue I've noticed with MarioWiki's coverage of remakes is that it doesn't explain much about the games themselves separate from the original games. This really concerns Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch), as its "Changes from the original game" section is very, very long (over three-quarters the page, by my count), while not really detailing anything about the game itself. I do understand the "once and only once" policy means that they shouldn't have to be exact duplicates of the original game's pages, but it also leaves the pages about remakes feeling somewhat barebones; if someone wants to learn about the TTYD remake in a general sense, should they have to go back to the original game's page to learn about it first and then go to the remake's page to dig through all the tiny changes to find out what's new?

I imagine this policy stems from early in the wiki's history for games like Super Mario All-Stars or Super Mario Advance, which makes sense, as those games are generally simple and don't need much explaining to get the gist of how they work (and the "changes" parts of those pages are generally much smaller). For games like the Super Mario RPG or TTYD remakes, however, it's pretty difficult to understand what the games are like without referencing the original game's pages, and in turn that leaves coverage on the remakes feeling somewhat incomplete. I actually feel like the Mario Kart 8 Deluxe page is a good example of how to handle this. It still lists differences from the original Mario Kart 8, but also explains the game's contents in a standalone manner well. (Maybe adding the rest of the new items and course elements would help, but it at least has the full cast, vehicle selection, and course roster.)

My proposal is essentially to have each remake page include general coverage of the game itself, rather than just a list of changes. From there, if each page is too long with general details and lists of changes included, then the list of changes can be split into a sub-page.

I don't think the remake pages need to be exact copies of what the pages for each original game say, but having them be a more general overview of how each game works (covering notable changes as well) before getting into the finer differences may be helpful. I represent WiKirby, and this is what we do for WiKirby's remake pages: for example, we have separate pages for Kirby's Return to Dream Land and Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe that both give a good idea of what the game is like without fully relying on each other to note differences between them. I think this is useful for not having to cross-reference both pages if you want to know the full picture of what the game is like.

This is my first proposal on this wiki, and in general I'm not good at proposals even on my "home" wiki, but I hope this explains what I mean. I think you can decide on a page-by-page basis whether "changes from the original" sections need to split into sub-pages (for instance, the very long TTYD section might, but something like Super Mario Advance could get by leaving it on), but I think having the remake's pages be more detailed and less reliant on the originals would only be beneficial to the quality of the wiki's coverage. This is admittedly just a suggestion, so if it's not ideal I'm fine if someone else wants to refine it into something more workable.

Proposer: DryKirby64 (talk)
Deadline: June 17, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to June 24, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to July 1, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. DryKirby64 (talk) As proposer.
  2. Big Super Mario Fan (talk) I agree with this proposal.
  3. Super Mario RPG (talk) This is a great idea.

Oppose

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) I'm unsure what the best approach is to covering rereleases or remakes, but I do not think we should adopt WiKirby's model of repeating most of the same information as the original game.
  2. DrBaskerville (talk) Opposing this particular solution, but agreeing that a solution to inadequate remake pages should be found.
  3. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per all.
  4. Scrooge200 (talk) I don't think WiKirby is a good example -- of anything. I would be interested in something else to improve the remake pages though.

Comments

This is challenging. Whereas I agree with you that the TTYD remake page is basically just a list of changes (and that is something that should be addressed), I don't think that simply rewording most everything on the original TTYD page is the solution. When it comes to RPGs, its much more challenging to fully cover everything in the game because there's a long, detailed story and it would be senseless to reword what is on the original's page to include it on the remake's page. I presume that's what you mean by "general coverage of the game" anyway. This is a problem that should be addressed, but I don't know that either of these two options are the right solution. Sprite of Toadsworth Dr. Baskerville Paper Mario Book- MLPJ.png 18:51, June 10, 2024 (EDT)

Mmhm, that makes sense. Like I said, I don't think it should be an exact duplicate of the original page or a paraphrase of it either... Maybe there's a place where I could discuss this with other users to get a better idea of what others think should be done? I went to proposals first since that's what I'm most familiar with, but maybe it would be helpful to iron out the exact issue a bit more to get a better idea of what to do. DryKirby64 (talk) 19:21, June 10, 2024 (EDT)
It couldn't hurt to ask for some guidance from staff on the Discord / forums or research previous proposals to see if something similar has been discussed. You're right to identify this as an issue; I just wish I knew a better solution. Maybe someone will come along with a helpful comment, so I'd at least recommend leaving this proposal up to bring attention to the issue. Sprite of Toadsworth Dr. Baskerville Paper Mario Book- MLPJ.png 19:28, June 10, 2024 (EDT)
Me personally, I'd repeat gameplay information because that's the thing that's actually changed, whereas story isn't touched at all afaik. BabyLuigiFire.png Ray Trace(T|C) 12:52, June 16, 2024 (EDT)

I think the case-by-case way we do it is fine. For instance, the SMA games and DKC remakes have enough changes both major and minor it makes the most sense to just list everything out again, which in the latters' case we do (thanks to a project of mine). But listing everything in Super Mario 3D All-Stars would be over-the-top when that's just a fidelity increase for three games. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:34, June 13, 2024 (EDT)

In my eyes, the change list for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is very massive, despite my occasional efforts to subcategorize its change list. I could continue to try to compress that page's list, but even I would not call that a gold standard for "Remake changes" lists. DandelionSprout (talk) 17:00, June 15, 2024 (EDT)

Just as someone who does go on other wikis to read up about remake information, I actually sometimes don't mind somewhat overlapping information than simply a list of changes (I don't like to hop back in between articles to read up information, especially if, say, the remake is the first time I'm ever experiencing the game). It's the reason I did sorta go all in in Mario Sports Superstars article (I wouldn't want to jump to two different pages to read mechanics about tennis and golf). I think a very brief summary of the gameplay for TTYD remake would do fine (basic battle system, hammers, jump, partners, that type of thing). BabyLuigiFire.png Ray Trace(T|C) 12:50, June 16, 2024 (EDT)

Just for reference, the current size of the TTYD remake page is actually larger than the size of the original page (190,141 bytes vs. 185,302 bytes). Scrooge200 (talk) PMCS Mustard Cafe Sign.png 23:45, June 20, 2024 (EDT)

Split Wario Land: Shake It! bosses into boss levels

This proposal is similar to the one that passed. As you see, we have Motley Bossblob and Hisstocrat boss levels from Super Mario 3D World, the boss levels from the Donkey Kong Country series, even boss levels Yoshi's Crafted World where each boss guards a Dream Gem. Right now, you might be wondering how we can create separate articles for the Wario Land: Shake It! boss levels.

According to the "<boss> → <boss level>" diagram, the following pages will be affected by the split:

Once this proposal passes, then we will be able to create separate articles for the Wario Land: Shake It! boss levels.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk) (banned)
Deadline: June 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to July 2, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Hewer (talk) I guess this makes sense for consistency with coverage of other games, so per proposal.
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) I don't think this should even have to go through a proposal. All the other boss levels have their own pages.
  3. Scrooge200 (talk) Per proposal; it makes navigation easier and lines up with how we already handle it for other games. (And for the record, short articles are fine: see Bowser's Sourpuss Bread, which succinctly explains its role rather than being padded out for length concerns.)

#GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal

Oppose

Comments

Wouldn't this be creating a bunch of stub articles? Is there sufficient information for all of these characters outside of their battles to warrant separate pages from their battles? For some bosses, I think this makes sense and I also think its good for the wiki to be consistent, but are we solving one "problem" and then creating twelve more by making twelve stub articles? Sprite of Toadsworth Dr. Baskerville Paper Mario Book- MLPJ.png 22:16, June 19, 2024 (EDT)

Looking at "Short Pages, when it isn't being filled with small disambiguation articles, articles with imminent deletions, or Mario Kart Arcade GP items, even the shortest Wario articles don't really come close to the articles featured here. The shortest Wario-related article we could find isn't even as short as the recently-split Speed Mario Bros.. While we aren't personally voting (we'd like to see an example draft of what the split articles look like before voting conclusively), we don't feel like article length is a particularly strong reason to be afraid when Pesky Billboard is an article so small that you could fit its textual content in a floppy disk's boot sector. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 23:46, June 19, 2024 (EDT)
Also, "stub" doesn't mean "short page", it means "page with too little information". If there's not a lot to talk about, then it's perfectly fine for a page to be short and still be complete, so brevity doesn't automatically make it a stub. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 04:11, June 20, 2024 (EDT)

Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles

I have been attempting to standardize the game articles for the Super Mario series on and off for the past few years. I think presenting information in a shared, unified way is beneficial for readers and passively communicates that these games are part of a shared series, something I think is helpful for a franchise covering so many genres and series. Game articles in the Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong Country series are similarly organized to one another. It is easy to jump from one article to another, information is where I'd expect it to be, and they look nice. Good stuff.

At present, some Super Mario game articles adopt different organizational structures than others even though they cover the same types of subjects. (As examples, compare Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins to New Super Mario Bros. U and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.) This proposal aims to standardize how they are all sectioned. I think it would be beneficial for their contents.

The sectioning I employ, in the order as laid out, is:

Characters: living/sapient/friendly/neutral subjects that do not cause harm

  • Playable characters: characters controlled
  • Non-playable characters: characters that aren’t controlled

Enemies and obstacles: subjects that damage or inhibit the player character

  • Enemies: living, often multi-membered creatures that occupy the general environment
  • Obstacles: abiotic and environmental subjects that cause damage or inhibit movement
  • Bosses: subjects that often take multiple hits to defeat and are chiefly major barriers to progression

Items and objects: beneficial and neutral environmental subjects, mostly abiotic

  • Items: subjects that are absorbable/collectible, holdable, or health-restoring
  • Power-ups: items that transform the player character’s appearance and grant unique abilities
  • Objects: interactable subjects in the environment that are not items

This sectioning arrangement has been integrated on the Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels, Super Mario Land, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Super Mario 3D Land, Super Mario 3D World, and Super Mario Odyssey articles.

Because of the tactile nature of platformers, I like organizing subjects based on their mechanical relationship to the player character, so I keep bosses organized with enemies and obstacles because they all hurt the player. It is also thematically appropriate, because at least some bosses are usually rulers of an enemy species in the same section. I do not like using terms that have strong connotations outside of gaming like "cast" or "antagonist". (I particularly do not like using "antagonist" here because these platformers are not chiefly driven by narrative, so the fact that some bosses also serve antagonistic narrative roles is of lesser importance to their tactile roles as bosses.) "Characters" is more neutral, I think. I also do not separate "returning enemies" from "new ones". I'd rather delineate that information in one shared table, like so. It keeps related enemy species next to each other regardless of whether they're new.

I don't envision this sectioning being applied rigidly, and this is apparent in some of the articles I linked to above. There aren't really enough items in Super Mario Land for them to be severed from power-ups, so I lumped them together in one table there. Both Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy 2 include a "rideable characters" section, and there is a "clothing" section between "Items" and "objects" in Super Mario Odyssey. Rather, I would like this sectioning to be a jumping off point, from which users can manipulate and change things as needed. No two games are exactly the same, after all.

I offer four options.

  1. Support: I like this! Let's do it (if this passes, this sectioning arrangement will be integrated into the remaining Super Mario game articles)
  2. Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently (if this one passes, a second proposal would be raised by the voters that outline their preferred organizational scheme)
  3. Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy (this option is basically the "do nothing" option)
  4. Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: June 3rd, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support: I like this! Let's do it

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Consistency is never a bad thing.
  3. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per proposal.
  4. Hewer (talk) I guess if this ought to be a proposal, then sure, per proposal.
  5. EvieMaybe (talk) per proposal

Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently

Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - I see page layouts as an organically changing thing, it's best to not create guidelines where they needn't exist. I'm fine with the pages being changed to follow this pattern, but it shouldn't require an additional proposal to change further.

Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed

Comments on standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles

These sound like good ideas, but do they need a proposal? Proposal rule 15: "Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages." Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:39, June 26, 2024 (EDT)

I originally did not plan on doing so, but EvieMaybe (talk) recommended I raise one. I supposed it was a good way to assess how other folks think game articles should be organized. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:45, June 26, 2024 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.