MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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{| align="center" style="width: 85%; background-color: #f1f1de; border: 2px solid #996; padding: 5px; color:black"
|'''Proposals''' can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] before any action(s) are done.
*Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
*"Vote" periods last for one week.
*All past proposals are [[/Archive|archived]].
|}
A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code <nowiki>{{user|</nowiki>''User name''<nowiki>}}</nowiki>.


This page observes the [[MarioWiki:No-Signature Policy|No-Signature Policy]].
==Writing guidelines==
===Change how "infinitely respawning" enemies are counted in level enemy tables===
Currently, the wiki lists enemy counts for each level in tables located in that level's article. This is all well and good, but the problem arises when infinitely respawning ones (like piped ones) are included. As seen [[World 6-B (New Super Mario Bros.)|here]], this is awkwardly written as
*"[number] (not including the infinite [enemy] spawning from [number] [method]),"
and why shouldn't it include them? That method of writing is ungainly, misleading, and bloats the table's width unnecessarily. Therefore, I propose the alternate writing of
*"[number] + (∞ x [number]),"
with the "x [number]" and parentheses being removed if there is only one case. So in the linked example, it would be "6 + ∞," which says the same thing without contradicting itself with a lengthy diatribe.
<br>(Also I had to restrain myself from using * rather than x because that's how I'm used to writing multiplication in equations. Thanks, higher-level math classes defaulting to "X" as a variable! But the asterisk could be used too, anyway.)


<h2 style="color:black">How To</h2>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
#Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
'''Deadline''': September 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT
#Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
#*Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
#*Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
#*Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
#Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
#At any time a vote may be rejected if at least '''three''' active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
#"<nowiki>#&nbsp;</nowiki>" should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
#All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
#If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of '''three''' votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
#Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "[[Wikipedia:Quorum|NO QUORUM]]." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
#No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than '''4 weeks''' ('''28 days''') old.
#Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, the proposer can request that their proposal be deleted by a [[MarioWiki:Administrators|Sysop]] at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it.
#All proposals are archived. The original proposer must '''''take action''''' accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a Sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
#There shouldn't be proposals about creating articles on a underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a [[MarioWiki:PipeProject|PipeProject]].
#Proposals can not be made about [[MarioWiki:Administrators|System Operator]] promotions and demotions. Sysops can only be promoted and demoted by the will of [[MarioWiki:Bureaucrats|Bureaucrats]].
#If the Sysops deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
#No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters, and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
 
The times are in EDT (UTC -4:00), and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights).  If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.
 
__TOC__
 
<center><span style="font-size:200%">CURRENTLY: '''{{LOCALTIME}}, {{LOCALDAY}} {{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALYEAR}} (EDT)'''</span></center>
 
 
==New Features==
===User Game Reviews===
Ahem, this is my first proposal so please go easy on me if I do something wrongI had an idea that users could review Mario games which they had played and recommend to other people. The link for them might be eg. "Super Mario 64/Review". I know we have a review corner in The Shroom but it's a nightmare looking through the archives to find the game you're looking for. The users could also use ratings such as "out-of-five-stars" or percentages. Of course the sysops could remove pointless negative reviews such as "this game sucked and I disliked it for no apparent reason".
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Yoshi Koshi Moshi}}<br>
'''Deadline''': October 27th, 2009 17:00 pm
 
====For User Game Reviews====
 
====No User Reviews ====
#{{User|Time Q}}: We're an encyclopedia based on objective ''Mario'' information, thus we can't put game reviews in the mainspace. However, there certainly is a way to improve The 'Shroom section if it has any flaws (I don't really read The 'Shroom, so I don't know).
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - As Time Q said, we're an encyclopedia, and as such we shall not have to endure subjective or biased material.
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Per TimeQ, you can suggest something so they can be found easier.
#{{User|Yoshario}} &ndash; Per Time Q
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per Time Q.
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - This wiki does not allow the use of "you" in an article (there's a template for it, {{tem|Rewrite-you}}), why would we be aloud to make reviews for users? It just seems a bit unfair, baby steps. Per TQ.
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! I don't really care of the pain of waitting for the next 'Shroom to see the next review, since most of them are complete opposites of actual reviews. And we are a Marioverse based encyclopedia not IGN. Zero signing out.
#{{User|Marwikedor}} This is a wiki for information, not a site for reviewing games!!
#{{User|T.c.w7468}} Per Time Q and all, this should be an informational wiki, and should generally stay that way.
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per Mr. Q.
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} - Per Time Q.
 
====Comments====
 
===Quote Box===
Alright, as my first proposal, I want a quote box to be in articles. I feel that people should get a users feel on a person or item when a viewer is reading through the page. An example would be (Imagine me putting this on Chief Chilly's page)
 
''"He was a worthy foe, powerful indeed, but he succumbed to his own strength, and was easily defeated"''
            -Runeon12
'''Proposer''': {{User|Runeon12}}<br>
'''Deadline''': October 29, 2009, 17:00
 
====For Quote Boxes====
#[[User:Runeon12]]
 
====Against Quote Boxes====
#{{User|Time Q}}: Same as for the above proposal. We're an encyclopedia, thus we don't need POV in our articles.
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - Per Time Q... again.
#{{User|Tucayo}} - Per
#{{User|T.c.w7468}} Per Time Q.
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per Time Q.
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} - This will be just another excuse to bring in fan point of views. When I read an article, I don't want to read. "''ZOMG! Luigi PWNS!''" or "''LOL! Wario is a fat man! XD''" or "''Dry Bones SUCKS!''" It just seems kinda ridiculous.
#{{User|Yoshario}}: Per Time Q.
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - We are not a fansite, those comments should go on a site '''with''' a comment box as that is what a comment box is for. Per the top guy.
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Per Gamefreak75- although Dry Bones does not suck!
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per Time Q and Gamefreak75.
#{{User|Electrobomber}} - It's not really necessary to have opinions on the actual articles, but its perfectly fine if you want to do that on your own page.
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} Definitely per Gamefreak75. When I'm reading an article, I don't want to see "OMRG!!! BABY LUIGI TEH SUX0RZ!!! Oioiosdofjsadjsadj blah" or "Walligis gonna beat Marop up!" and so on and so on.
 
====Comments====
Although I must say that I enjoy it to have in-game-quotes on articles (say f.e. a character in a Mario game says something about Warp Pipes and that quote could be put on the Warp Pipe article.). But of course, no fan-made content. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
 
Actually guys, new idea. First of all, I would like to thank Edofenrir for the idea, let us go with having a quote of what another character said to the character being searched. For example, if Mario called Luigi an "insolent fool!" then that would show up as the quote in Luigi, instead of our fan quotes.
{{Unsigned|Runeon12}}
 
==Removals==
===Remove BJAODN===
BJADON is pointless and does not serve the wiki in any way. We are not the UnMarioWiki, we are the MarioWiki, and therefore "Bad Jokes and Other Deleted Nonsense" should not be allowed here. The only purpose it serves is the purpose it says on the page, "To have bad word documented, the most silly and dum word in the wold!". That is clearly not our goal at the MarioWiki. We are wasting server space with completely irrelevant and nonsensical.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Yoshario}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' Wednesday, 27 October 2009, 17:00


====Support====
====Support====
#{{User|Yoshario}} &ndash; Per above.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per
#{{User|Altendo}} - This doesn't sound like a bad idea, although I do think there should be an asterisk like "*" instead which leads to a note saying "not including the infinite [enemy] spawning from [number] [method]", as enemies can spawn in different ways, and showing how they spawn could still be useful. If we just show "∞ x [number]", it wouldn't show how Goombas are spawned in (the linked page doesn't specify how they are spawned in otherwise). But I do like the idea of shortening the "count" section of tables.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per all.
<s>#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per Altendo. This formatting is much better, but I also think some note of where the infinite enemy spawner(s) originate from should be preserved.</s>


====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Well, this ill be clearly polemical. I say no. After all the effort I put into it? And it is just like a way of diversion. I find it really funny.
#{{User|Hewer}} I don't see the benefit of changing this. The current wording is straightforward and succinct, I'd expect the reader to understand "6 (not including the infinite Goombas spawning from one Warp Pipe)" easily. Changing it to "6 + ∞" just makes it less clear for no reason, I'd definitely be confused if I saw that and didn't know this specific context. The fact that the other support votes have also brought up how doing this risks losing the specific information completely (and suggested a more long-winded solution that seems to contradict the proposal) compels me to oppose this more.
#{{User|FunkyK38}} I think you are being a bit harsh there, Yoshario. Many users contribute there, and many users would be upset to see it go. BJAODN is kind of like the 'Shroom, it provides some comic relief to the members of the wiki (I'm not saying that the 'Shroom is a joke, which it IS NOT.), and getting rid of it would get rid of a lot of good stuff on the wiki.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per Hewer.
#{{user|TehDman}} It keeps users entertained. And when it doesn't, it teaches new users how not to be humiliated.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{user|Master Lucario}} Per FunkyK38. And BJAODN also shows new users what not to do.
#{{User|Axii}} Per Hewer
#{{user|Totodile3456}} - removing it would be a bad idea, since a lot of users like to add the dumb stuff that noobs make, it would be kind of like deleting the Mario article. even if it has some content that is irrelevant to the mario series, it still has some stuff related to it, so no
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.
#{{user|MC Hammer Bro.}} Well I see that Yoshario has a great and persistent argument I think we could meet a compromise using SMB's comment below...
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} we don't need to throw a mathematical equation at people
#{{User|Super-Yoshi}} While the BJAODN may include alot of funny and weird BS, I don't support removing it. Did you know Wikipedia has a BJAODN? So you think theyre uninformative and unorganized? Seems like it. Your going '''way too''' overboard. We have unlimited server space, don't we? Well not unlimited, but '''alot'''. MarioWiki is a community, not a place where everyone just edits and thats it. Removing BJAODN is like removing User Talk, because oh, most of the time people just say "hay sup" and archive like 20 headers in 10 archives. I'm not saying User Talk is just a place to talk with your friends and what not, because people can give warnings and reminders and what not and help the user out.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|T.c.w7468}} Per all. I also think we can come to a compromise using SMB's comment below.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} I realized that this only makes sense if you have it explained to you like in the proposal description, which defeats the purpose.
#{{User|Glowsquid}} - I should only have to say "I'm the creator duh", but I'll also add there's some legetimate, obvious bad writing archived in there. If it's "useless", then so is the 'Shroom because it's also irreverent and nonsensical lol.
#{{User|Grapes}} - Per all.
#{{user|Toadbert101}} - Yoshario is just mad cause he hates us all now, and is trying to remove part of the community. Besides, BJAODN doesnt harm us, waste space, or put us backward from our goal of haivng the most mario stuff, even if it doesnt get us any closer.
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - BJAODN is a fun way for people to express themselves and show creativity. Many users may not stick around after there is nothing left for them to do. Users have put so much effort into it, it would be a shame to delete it now.
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per my comment below.
#{{User|Cobold}} "Wasting server space" can hardly be an argument. I don't see how BJAODN is different from The Shroom.
#{{user|Electrobomber}} - Bah, using your logic, all userspaces and pages including the words "fun,happy,good," or any other kind of positive content should be removed. >:P
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} No way! The BJAODN is too funny to delete! It's amazing what people will write!
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per Glowsquid and Stooben Rooben. While not everyone will find everything funny (as Super Mario Bros. pointed out), real life satire is always better than manufactured "bad writing" exemplars: honest laughs will be remembered much longer. Compared to The 'Shroom, chat and the forums, the amount of space BJAODN eats up is a mere pittance, and a small price to pay for the simple joy it offers our editors - who might just learn a thing or two about what not to do while they're at it.
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} - Per all.
#{{User|Katana}} - Per FawfulFury. I love reading BJAODN, and deleting it would make Mariowiki a dull place. :(
#{{User|Hyper Guy}} Aw, don't be mean! The BJAODN is what makes our Wiki look like more of a community in guests find it. It's also funny :D We don't want this place to like like 'Super Mario Dictionary & Thesaurus', do we? Who'd want to click on athat link?!
#{{User|GalacticPetey}} Listen Yoshario... If you get rid of BJAODN a lot of users will leave and this place would fall apart! Conprendo!
#{{User|Paper Jorge}} Per all. As Alphaclaw showed in chat, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_Humor even] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_really,_really,_really_stupid_article_ideas_that_you_really,_really,_really_should_not_create Wikipedia] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars has] pages like BJAODN.
#{{User|Plumber}} <big><big>''Off with [[User:Yoshario|his]] head!''</big></big> (''Translation from Xzelionese:'' Per all; '''I counterpropose that we remove the proposals pages since stupid proposals like these waste both server space and people's time.''')
#{{User|Coincollector}} - It is worth to take away stress from serious contributing here.
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} Some people wouldn't even know it exists (and that's me; I learned it by walking into this page). Even so, removing BJAODN will make our Mariowiki a sad, monotonous place. I only find a few BJAODN funny, but eh, whatever. To shorten up my request, no.
#{{User|Randoman123456789}} - A lot of things in BJAODN are considered funny by the Super Mario Wiki community, and removing it is ridiculous. In other words, per all.
#{{user|Jdrowlands}} - Per Plumber, who per'd all.


====Comments====
====Comments====
I do neither support the removal of BJAODN, nor do I think that we have to keep it by all means. I think I will abstain from voting here. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
{{@|Hewer}} - "succinct" would generally imply "short, sweet, and to-the-point," of which the current method is the exact opposite. I'm fine with including an asterisk-note next to the infinity, but the current one is much too bloated, outright admits to stating false information, and since the tables are center-aligned with that horizontal-bloat, it makes it look incredibly awkward. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:41, September 17, 2024 (EDT)
:@Tucayo: Despite some people finding it "really funny", that's not our goal here. An how is it a way of "distressing us"? {{User|Yoshario}}
:I guess we just have totally opposing opinions on this one, because I don't personally find ten words of explanation to be "much too bloated", would rather "state false information" (not really what's happening because it's immediately clarified and the only way not to state any "false" info would be to just put "∞" which helps no one) than obscure the meaning of what we're trying to say, and I don't at all think the somewhat wider tables look "incredibly awkward". This is a case where I feel giving more explanation than "6 + ∞" is necessary for the sake of conveying clear information, so I'd rather prioritise that over having a thin table (which I still don't really see why that's so desirable). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 03:19, September 18, 2024 (EDT)
::@FunkyK38: How am I being harsh? Many users contributed to their userspace, yet we removed it because it was a distraction from the mainspace. ''This'' is worse, as it's completely nonsensical and doesn't help the wiki reach it's goal. If members want comic relief, they can visit the many joke wikis out there. {{User|Yoshario}}
We have new rules that prevent adding comments, which was the m ain distraction {{User|Tucayo}}
:We still waste server space with BJAODN. By keeping this, you're saying that a page which purpose is "To have bad word documented, the most silly and dum word in the wold!" fits our scope. {{user|Yoshario}}
::Well, we have things that waste more space. And I dont consider it to be a waste of space. Have you read it? {{User|Tucayo}}
:::What other things waste more space? And yes, I have read it. Most of it seems to be inane and ridiculous. (e.g. "Madden is a game not in the mario sieries that is football made by EA sports.") {{user|Yoshario}}
:::::@TehDman: The wiki isn't meant to be fun, it is supposed to be informative. If you don't find this wiki's goal "fun", then it's your own issue. We should not amend our scope so users can have "fun". {{User|Yoshario}}
::::::Then let's remove the Forums, Chatroom, 'Shroom, and even our skin. Because we're informative, right? {{User|Crypt Raider}} 18:19, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::::The Forums and Chatroom were made so people could discuss non-wiki things. {{user|Yoshario}}
I don't get it. What is BJAODN? Bad Junk And Other Deleted Nonsense... how are we to get rid of something that's already gone? And where is the BJAODN? {{User|Dry Paratroopa}}
: The [[MarioWiki:BJAODN]] is an archive of deleted content that was removed because it was ridiculous in some way, but was too amusing to delete it completely. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
::<s>I feel we should remove TehDman's and Master Lucario's comments, as they do not help the situation in any way</s>. Also, perhaps we could just go through the completely pointless crap (like the "Madden is a game not in the mario sieries that is football made by EA sports.") and remove it? we could keep the jokes and other things, but not those stupid one line and poorly written articles that have triggered this proposal. And, a joke wiki... That gives me an idea. Let's see how my first idea goes though. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
::: I agree to an extent with SMB. I think the page should be filtered removing things like the Madden articles and such that are one liners and completely not that funny. I've also noticed that the latest additions to the pages were very minor. I think the way it has been updated is a much better system. {{User|MC Hammer Bro.}}
<s>Super-Yoshi: Actually, that "unlimited" serverspace is moaning and cracking under the weight of unnecessary material, to such extents that we have server slowdowns and such. A certain dager of overload is present. I am not saying that removing BJAODN is an appropriate measurement to solve that problem (that's why I don't vote), but it is not like we have unlimited server space.</s> UPDATE: It seems like I have been misinformed, so this comment isn't of validation anymore. - {{User|Edofenrir}}


Yoshario, what's your stance on the 'Shroom. Most of it isn't exactly NEEDED and PURPOSEFUL either (lol faek news).
If this proposal passes, I think that a dedicated template should be made; something like <code><nowiki>{{infinite respawn|5|3}}</nowiki></code> that would produce "{{hover|5 + (∞ × 3)|5 (not including the 3 infinite spawning points)}}". Or at the very least, use an actual "×" symbol rather than "x". {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 12:08, September 19, 2024 (EDT)
:I dislike the idea of hiding details in easily missable hover text and don't really see the benefit of using it. It just makes it more convoluted. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:12, September 20, 2024 (EDT)


Also, no removing of ANYTHING. Humour is in the eye of the beholder.
I'll refrain from voting because I have a visceral reaction to anything that resembles a math formula, and I want as little as possible for personal preference to seep into my vote. That's not to say I don't understand what's being proposed, in fact it makes perfect sense if you're aiming strictly for concision, but you'd need to take into account how accessibly that information is communicated--you'd need to establish that "infinity symbol" stands for infinite enemy spawning point, which is not immediately clear. At that point, you'd go for a relatively lengthy explanation nonetheless. Though, I agree that the phrasing in that page you linked doesn't sound inclusive. I think something like "5 individual, 3 infinite spawning points" works better if we're going down this path.<br>If the proposal passes, I'd like to see it implemented in the manner Jdtendo suggests above.<br>EDIT: I'm aware there's [[Mario Kart Tour race points system#Bonus-points boost|already plenty of math on this wiki that has potential to confound people]], but in that case, not only is its succinctness a better way to explain how the game's scoring system works (as opposed to paragraphs-long descriptions), but it's taken straight out of the game as well. I'd say, use math formulas only when you're sure prose would be of less service to its intended audience: people looking up how many enemies are in a level aren't necessarily interested in complex gameplay dynamics. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:12, September 19, 2024 (EDT), edited 14:55, September 19, 2024 (EDT)


The argument about sever space is '''ridiculous'''. A few text files and some images take, like, 2 MB at most? Purging BJAODN would do to the server what drinking a glass of water do to the ocean. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] 20:05, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
I'd personally prefer if this was notated with ω instead of ∞, something like "{{hover|3ω+5|3 infinite spawn points and 5 others}}", but that would probably be too confusing to anyone not already familiar with transfinite ordinal notation. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 10:01, September 21, 2024 (EDT)


People, this is just an OPINION! Stop overdramatizising it and come down to a constructive level again! And ditch the personal attacks. They poison our community! - {{User|Edofenrir}}
==New features==
''None at the moment.''


...are you serious
==Removals==
 
''None at the moment.''
This whole "server space" thing is becoming a rather invalid reason for a lot of issues. '''One page''' is not going to cause enough of a dent in the server space to justify getting rid of it. Hundreds of non-beneficial user sub-pages does cause a fairly minimal negative effect on the server, but one page? Come on. [[MarioWiki:The 'Shroom|If]] [[MarioWiki:Anniversary|you]] [[MarioWiki:PipeProjects|want]] [[MarioWiki:Administrators|to]] [[MarioWiki:Patrollers|delete]] [[MarioWiki:Bureaucrat|that]] [[Special Moves|page]], [[Characters|you]] [[Enemies|might]] [[Allies|as]] [[Items|well]] [[Places|delete]] [[Games|all]] [[Donkey Kong Games|of]] [[Wario Games|these]] [[Yoshi Games|pages]] [[Games by Date|too]]. (The first three are community projects, just like BJAODN; the next three explain stuff that users can ask an experienced member -- and is common sense, on some level; the rest of them are pages that act as a category.) I could find many more, but I think I've made my point there. All of those pages cause about as much damage to the server as BJAODN, which isn't much. And for that matter, the comments added to BJAODN don't cause enough of a difference in server space to justify disabling users' rights to add their two cents to that page. You might as well outlaw casual conversations on user talk pages if you're going to go that far. (Unlike BJAODN, that actually creates a dent in server space that's "not beneficial to the wiki". If users want to talk to each other, they should just use the forum or chat, right? And for that matter, we may as well ask Steve to get rid of 95% of the forum and the chatroom because they're not beneficial to the wiki either.) I never liked the idea of disabling comments on BJAODN to begin with; this is taking that insane motion a step further. Besides, BJAODN isn't just for laughs; it's also a 'what not to do' guide. The bottom line here is that server space is ''not'' the issue here. -- {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
 
:Edo: yea we always have slowdowns and stuff lol. I was just saying what st00by basically just said. {{User|Super-Yoshi}}
 
Concerning the "IT DOESN'T ADVANCE US" argument, how does [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_give_the_developers_ideas this] page advance the goal of the mother of all wiki, or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FLAMEBOX this] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Facial_hair_is_required_for_administratorship this]? If the sticklers at Wikpedia have dozen of pages on the most ridiculous things, I don't see why we can't have one page.
 
I also like how you imply opposer to your proposal "don't give a damn about the community," and that it's "common sense" to vote for your side. Mature, real mature. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] 06:49, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
 
Bah, stop bein' a flipping baby Yoshario. I can't recall the person at the moment, but I agree with their argument that MarioWiki is a ''community'', not a ramrod straight '''ONLY FORMAL WIKI'''. Because the impression I'm getting right now is that you're trying to tell us that you're the only perfect person here. {{User|Electrobomber}}
 
@Glowsquid Meh, more mature than "yoshario iz evil lol" or "anything yoshario likes I hate". And I am part-right. Katana, ML, and TehDman aren't even active here. And it is common sense to vote for my side because BJAODN does not benefit the wiki and does not fit into the wiki's goal. Oh, and when you compared it to Wikipedia's BJAODN, I'd like to say that that's gone, and they moved it to an external wiki. :| @Electrobomber: I'm not perfect, when did I imply that? It seems that you aren't taking the goal of the wiki that seriously. The wiki is a community, and non-wiki things can be discussed in #mariowiki. {{user|Yoshario}}
 
"Common sense" is stuff no one with a certifiably working brain can disagree with. Claiming no one with common sense can disagree with you makes you look petulant (Especially since at least two other administrators are disagreing with you(. Also, you didn't respond to what I said about The 'Shroom. Surely, reading about (fake) news about characters that don't exist shurely fits the site goal.
 
The Wikipedia BJAODN may have been moved, but the "Best Of" and many individual articles are still kept, which is quite a lot. Not to mention a lot of alternative language (French, and I assume German) Wikipedia still have it as an active project. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] 19:17, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
 
To everybody that has mentioned the 'Shroom, look at the proopsal name, it has nothing to do with the 'Shroom, so dont even get it into this deleting stuff. Thank you {{User|Tucayo}}
 
This is getting ridiculous, so everyone '''SHUT UP AND STOP ARGUING!''' A strong community is a happy community, and a happy community is not one that argues. Back on topic, we should get rid of any non-Mario (not even partially) stuff that is in the BJAODN, because even if it is funny, it didn't even belong here in the first place. {{User|Dry Paratroopa}} Note: It may sound like it, but I'm not taking credit for the idea. Someone put it somewhere above...
 
'''Yoshario''':
 
''"Katana, ML, and TehDman aren't even active here." -- Yoshario''
 
Well, for starters, being inactive =/= not caring about the wiki. If Steve just randomly decided to nuke the MarioWiki, do you not think they would care? I've been inactive ''a lot'' lately, but that doesn't mean I don't care about the wiki.
 
''"And it is common sense to vote for my side because BJAODN does not benefit the wiki and does not fit into the wiki's goal." -- Yoshario''
 
If that were the case, the chatroom would never have been created, and all the boards (except for the Admin boards) on the forum would never have existed. They may not benefit the encyclopedic aspect of the wiki, but they do benefit the communicative part of it. Besides, it's not like it's doing any harm. If it were actually posing a threat to the site, then it would be smart to get rid of it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
Now, I will agree that the Yoshario-hate in this proposal is outlandish. (Although, most of it seems to be gone now.) He made a proposal you don't like; '''get over it'''. Not everyone has to have the same point of view to get along.
 
'''Tucayo''': We weren't saying that The 'Shroom is a waste of space; we were using it as an example of why BJAODN should stay. (Or at least, I was.) -- {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
 
@Stooben Rooben: The chatroom and forum were created as an alternative to the wiki where you can talk about whatever you want. For example, we don't talk about Mario on [[Talk:Mario]], we talk about the article, and direct Mario-related discussion to the forum.
 
"Well, for starters, being inactive =/= not caring about the wiki. If Steve just randomly decided to nuke the MarioWiki, do you not think they would care? I've been inactive ''a lot'' lately, but that doesn't mean I don't care about the wiki."
 
Even so, it the ones who aren't active on the wiki vote something like "BJAODN is all I read on the wiki". He didn't say it were the articles were all he reads, and contributes to, he said BJAODN. {{User|Yoshario}}
 
Yoshario: I read BJAODN because I can't contribute to Mariowiki. I don't have many Mario games, and there's already good articles on them. >_> I don't really care about the wiki a ton, but I'm allowed to have an opinion, right? My opinion is that we should keep BJAODN. [[User:Katana|Katana]]
:I never said you weren't allowed to have an opinion. But the vote you are "per-ing" says :"No way! The BJAODN is too funny to delete! It's amazing what people will write!". The wiki is not meant to be funny, it is meant to be a free encyclopedia about Mario. Perhaps we could have a "What not to do" page, instead of BJAODN. It would serve the purpose of explaining "what not to do" better, and be more understandable. {{User|Yoshario}}
 
Actually Yoshario, people are more likely to learn "what not to do" by examples, so BJAODN isn't all that bad. I also agree with Hyper Guy, on the statement that we are not the "Super Mario Dictionary" (or something like that.) And even though MarioWiki has social and humorous touches, you don't see the actual articles being crap, now do you? {{User|Electrobomber}}
 
Actually, the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style]] has better examples than BJAODN. "It's Halloween. Mario and friends are thinking it's going to it's a scary night.Until the mummy of Toadsworth's brother returns to haunt the Living. " is less helpful than an in-depth guide on how to start an article. For example, if a user wanted to know what should be bolded, BJAODN wouldn't be a good guide since words are randomly bolded there. {{User|Yoshario}}
: Primo, BJAODN is an archive of '''what not to do'', comparing it with a page specifically meant to help out new users is sily. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] 21:23, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
 
'''WILL YOU JUST SHUT UP AND LEAVE BJAODN ALONE!''' {{User|GalacticPetey}}
 
I just removed some votes that lacked valid reasons. Also, '''stop being so immature''', guys. Some of you are acting as if Yoshario was proposing to destroy the wiki. It's only about a single page that hasn't even been here for that long and the wiki worked perfectly before we had the page as well. You don't have to agree with him, but there's no need to shout at him or accusing him of "hating" us or BS like that. {{User|Time Q}}
 
I agree with Time Q. Yoshario hasn't proposed something so hideous and terrible that it's going to kills everyone if it gets proposed, so give him a break. Although I don't agree with it, Yoshario is entitled to his own opinion, and he doesn't deserve to get shot down by the opposers. So GIVE HIM A BREAK! {{User|FunkyK38}}
 
This discussion is a disgrace to our community... deplorable... - {{User|Edofenrir}}
 
I completely agree with the above three people. It's not like Yoshario is doing anything wrong. There's nothing I hate seeing more than the community getting completely irrational over different viewpoints. -- {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
 
"I never said you weren't allowed to have an opinion. But the vote you are "per-ing" says :"No way! The BJAODN is too funny to delete! It's amazing what people will write!" Or, you're just making up crap to make it look like she's wrong. She never said those things; and I know she didn't imply them. I'm going to continie this because as a said before, "A strong community is a happy community, and a happy community is not one that argues." {{User|Dry Paratroopa}}
 
==Splits & Merges==
''None at the moment.


==Changes==
==Changes==
===Change Goomba's Shoe to Kuribo's Shoe===
===Decide how to handle the "latest portrayal" section in infoboxes===
From SMB3, Kuribo's Shoe is my childhood remembrance of this super-special item so exclusive this world 5-3 and never seen again.  I believe that it's name was part of what made it so unique.  So make the title of the article "Kuribo's Shoe" for the sake of tradition.  I'm not saying don't mention in the article Kuribo's shoe means Goomba's shoe in Japanese.  But the main title should be it's original and more well-known name. So what if the GBA remake called it "Goomba's Shoe." It's the little things like the name Kuribo's Shoe and the fond memories it invokes that are like a big, juicy steak in our nostalgic minds. I implore, urge the Mario wiki users to vote YES. And lest you folks forget, it was refered to as the Shoe of Kuribo in [[Super Paper Mario]].  
Currently, in infoboxes, the "latest portrayal" section of it is inconsistent across characters. When ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)|Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door]]'' came out, for example, it listed both [[Kevin Afghani]] (Mario's current voice actor) and [[Charles Martinet]] (who voices Mario in ''The Thousand-Year Door'' from original archival voicing) as Mario's latest portrayals, yet [[Jen Taylor]] (whose voice clips were also reused) wasn't added to Peach's latest portrayal. Therefore, to make these infoboxes consistent for characters with multiple voice actors, I am proposing several options:
*Option 1: Only add in the current voice actor for the character (reissues with archival voices from retired voice actors will not be added).
*Option 2: Only add in the voice actor for the character in the most recent game (reissues with archival voices will overtake the "current" voice actor if the latest one did not record voice lines for the character, the current voice actor will be re-added to the infobox following the release of a game with voices from the current voice actor).
*Option 3: Add both the current voice actor and the voice actor for the latest release (this puts two voice actors in the "latest portrayal" section if the character is voiced via archival footage from a retired voice actor, but the current voice actor also gets to remain. When a new game comes out with new voice lines from the current voice actor, the voice actor from the previous release will be removed).
*Option 4: Do nothing (infoboxes with both actors will not change, and same with infoboxes with the current actor even if a game featuring archival voicing from a retired voice actor is the latest one).


With regards to mixed use of voices, if multiple voice actors voice a single character in a single game, the latest person who voiced the character as of the game's release takes priority, meaning that archival voices from retired actors will not appear in the infobox if the character in that game is also (and especially mostly) voiced by the current actor for that character. As for other media (like ''[[The Super Mario Bros. Movie]]''), whether or not the game/other media actor takes priority or if both should be listed is also of question, but I will likely wait until the [[Untitled The Super Mario Bros. Movie follow-up|follow-up]] to create that proposal.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Marwikedor}}<br>
'''EDIT:''' With regards to [[User:Tails777|Tails777]]'s vote, I don't know exactly how it will play out if Option 3 passes, although I will say if a game (like a compilation) does have a single character voiced by more than one voice actor who isn't the current one, the latest voice actor whose voice clips are used in the game as of the game's release will be the second option added to the infobox (like Peach in ''3D All-Stars'', who would've listes Samantha Kelly as her current and ''Galaxy'' voice actress, as well as Jen Taylor as her ''Sunshine'' voice actress, although I don't think it would be that consistent because it would exclude Leslie Swan, her ''64'' voice actress, but since Jen Taylor was the more recent of the two, she is the one who is listed).
'''Deadline''': October 29th, 2009 17:00 pm


====Change the title to "Kuribo's Shoe"====
'''Proposer''': {{User|Altendo}}<br>
#{{User|Marwikedor}} &ndash; Per above.
'''Deadline''': September 21, 2024, 23:59 GMT
#{{User|Monteyaga}} - Per first person
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} - Per Marwikedor-It was first called Kuribo's Shoe, therefore it should stay that way.
#{{User|Mechayoshi}}-yes it's original name


====Leave it as is====
====Only add in the current voice actor====
#{{User|Lego3400}} As per the policy. You can't make exceptions due to nostalgia or people will keep asking.
#{{User|Altendo}} Primary choice. "Latest portrayal", to me, means the person who last voiced the character, and I don't think archival voices should count as this, especially since those voices were recorded before the current voice actor. This also avoids the issues of multiple voice actors voicing a single character in compilations and switching/adding or removing voice actors when reissues and original games come out (as described below).
#{{User|Knife}} - This is the more recent name.
#{{User|Shadow2}} Re-using old sound clips has no bearing on a character's "Latest portrayal". Charles does not voice Mario anymore, and to list him as such just because of older re-used sound clips is misrepresentative.
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - It goes against policy, which will cause an inconsistency. Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per both, this is the less misleading option (the infobox doesn't specify whether the "latest" voice actor was just re-usage of old voice clips, so  listing both Charles and Kevin gives the impression that they're both actively voicing Mario, which is wrong).
#{{User|Grandy02}} - Next time, change Princess Peach to Princess Toadstool due to nostalgia? We have the policy to use the more recent name. We don't go by personal preferences. No inconsistencies, please.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per all.
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Per our policy
#{{User|Scrooge200}} The ''Mario'' franchise re-uses voice clips all the time. Having Charles listed there under a new game could give the false impression that he returned to voice Mario for that.
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - The article always mentions the name of the object as of their most recent appearance unless that name is too long in which case it is abbreviated. Create a redirect.
#{{User|Tails777}} The main supporting vote here has a better point, now leaning more to this one.
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} - Unfortunately, the policy states the name to be the same.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} After considering it, this makes the most sense to me; it's the most straightforward option and avoids possible misrepresentation.
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - Although I love the term "Kuribo's Shoe", I also hate inconsistency. Exceptions are confusing and annoying, so: Nah!
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all.


====Comments====
====Only add in the the voice actor for the "latest" game====
Was it called Kuribo's Shoe in Super Mario Bros. 3? If so, then I support. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
<s>#{{User|Altendo}} Tertiary choice. If "Latest portrayal" really means the person who voiced the character in the latest game, regardless of said actor's as-of-game-release status, then maybe archival voices can count because it is the voice of the character in the "latest" game. I do not recommend this option as this will cause a lot of infobox editing and switching voice actors when reissues (particularly ports and remasters) do inevitably come out, and if a compilation game (like ''[[Super Mario 3D All-Stars]]'') comes out, multiple voice actors who voice the same character in a single compilation (like [[Princess Peach]], who had [[Leslie Swan|three]] [[Jen Taylor|voice]] [[Samantha Kelly|actresses]] in a single compilation) will stack up in the infoboxes. And when a new game comes out, all of that is thrown out the window, reverting to their current voice actor. [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/63#Rename "Latest portrayal" section in character infobox to "Notable portrayals"|This is why some were against enforcing the absolute "latest" portrayals in a previous proposal]]. The only reason why I am for this is consistency.</s>
:It was, but they changed it to "Goomba's Shoe" in the remake. As per policy, we do use the most recent name of characters/items/whatever... - {{user|Bloc Partier}}
====Add both current and latest voice actor====
::Well, if the Policy dictates that, then I can't do anything about it. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
#{{User|Tails777}} Leaning to a secondary vote; it's best to keep it up to date when it comes to VAs, but it isn't uncommon for various games to recycle voice clips (TTYD once again being a good example). I feel it is best to at least acknowledge if voice clips get recycled in this respect, though I also feel this should be limited to one at a time, in case there are examples where someone had more than even two voice actors.
Fawfulfury65: To keep consistency, we'd have to move "Mario" to "Jumpman" then... - {{User|Edofenrir}}
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
:Maybe this proposal should be turned into a proposal to ''change'' the policy. {{User|Marioguy1}}
<s>#{{User|Altendo}} Secondary choice. It feels nice to respect both the voice actor who is currently voicing the character and the person whose voices, even in archival, are the sole ones used in the latest game. However, my point about voice actor switching, while not as big as an issue because archival voice actors will only be added rather than replace the current one, still kind of stands because reissues will add the archival voice actor for one game, only to remove it when a new game comes out. Additionally, if compilations ''only'' contain voices from retired voice actors, this will stack it up even more (although for ''3D All-Stars'', it still wouldn't change much due to Peach's ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' voice actress still being her current one). Still, this does make the infoboxes consistent.</s>
::Are you aware of the consequences of this? The Jumpman thing is only one example of renames we would have to make if the policy is changed (because if it gets changed, then it gets changed completely, with no exceptions!). You want to change the names of masses of articles to confusing aliasses just for nostalgia? I like Kuribo's Shoe more as well, but I won't sacrifice the structure of the whole Wiki for it. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
====Do nothing====
 
::You people are wrong.  Super Paper Mario is more recent than that GBA remake!  Remember the Sammer Guy referenced the true title!  In Bowser's Inside Story, a Sockop was name Kuribo, clearly referencing he looked like Kuribo's Shoe!  Both of those games are more recent than that GBA remake!  I don't even think in the GBA remake it was even mentioned in the game!  Was it just a guide or something?  The most recent name is Kuribo's Shoe. Change your votes those who voted against it!  Per your own policy!- {{User|Marwikedor}}
:::Dude it was a [[Sammer Guy]] that was called "Shoe of Kuribo". The actual item didn't appear in the game. ''It was just a reference to the item''. -- {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
::::@Marwikedor: It wasn't a guide, the game itself called it Goomba's Shoe: [http://themushroomkingdom.net/images/remakes/sma4/sma4_letter3.png Image]. SPM and BIS only have references to the item. If the item itself would be renamed Kuribo's Shoe again in a new release, the article would be moved, of course. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 06:36, 25 October 2009 (EDT)
 
===Shorten Quotes===
OK, I'm going to get the point across quickly, but I think we shouldn't have long quotes on articles. Instead, we should have them on the 'List Of Quotes' area. This is only because a while ago on the [[Fawful]] article, the main quote at the top of the page was AN ENTIRE SCENE of Fawful, not just a quote. I've removed it now, but even still on other articles there's like, 3 paragraphs for one quote. I think we should make it so a quote is something like the characters catchphrase (e.g., for Fawful "I HAVE FURY!"), or just a sentance. If we want long quotes, they should go on a 'List Of Quotes In (INSERT GAME NAME HERE)' page. Thank you, and goodnight.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Hyper Guy}}<br>
'''Deadline''': November 2, 2009, 17:00
 
====Shorten Quotes====
#{{User|Hyper Guy}} Per the fact I invented the proposal.
 
====Keep Long Quotes====


====Comments====
====Comments====
I think a quote should mirror the personality of a character, while trying to be as short as possible. If a character has a catch phrase, this is easy, but sometimes slightly larger quotes are inevitable. However, a whole dialogue shouldn't be posted as a quote in any case. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
I'm conflicted between simply listing only whoever is currently voicing the character vs. potentially opening a can of worms by listing multiple actors from archival clips, even though that would respect the portrayals from the most recent game whether it used newly recorded or archived voices. No matter how this proposal ends up, I think that a future proposal should consider standardizing the "Portrayals" header in the character articles themselves. For Mario, the list of portrayals does a great job at comprehensively documenting everyone who has officially voiced Mario, but falters in conveying the inconceivable magnitude of media in which Martinet has voiced Mario, and how much he has contributed to the character's brand recognition to the point where many people will continue to see him as ''the'' voice of Mario, even moving forward as Kevin Afghani takes on that role. {{User:ThePowerPlayer/sig}} 23:57, September 16, 2024 (EDT)


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''
<!-- Please do not remove, archive or place comments below this message. -->
&nbsp;

Latest revision as of 10:01, September 21, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Saturday, September 21st, 14:01 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% support to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% support to win. If the required support threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use the {{proposal check}} tool to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks (at the earliest).
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "September 21, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the subject page of the talk page it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the New Super Mario Bros. games, the Super Mario Maker games, Super Mario Run, or Super Mario Bros. Wonder
Expand use of "rawsize" gallery class, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended July 19, 2024)
Do not use t-posing models as infobox images, Nightwicked Bowser (ended September 1, 2024)
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Tag sections regarding the unofficially named planets/area in Super Mario Galaxy games with "Conjecture" and "Dev data" templates, GuntherBayBeee (ended September 10, 2024)
Rename the remaining baseball teams to their current titles, GuntherBayBeee (ended September 19, 2024)
Add WikiLove extension, Super Mario RPG (ended September 20, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Split Bowser's Flame from Fire Breath, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2024)
Split Banana Peel from Banana, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2024)

Writing guidelines

Change how "infinitely respawning" enemies are counted in level enemy tables

Currently, the wiki lists enemy counts for each level in tables located in that level's article. This is all well and good, but the problem arises when infinitely respawning ones (like piped ones) are included. As seen here, this is awkwardly written as

  • "[number] (not including the infinite [enemy] spawning from [number] [method]),"

and why shouldn't it include them? That method of writing is ungainly, misleading, and bloats the table's width unnecessarily. Therefore, I propose the alternate writing of

  • "[number] + (∞ x [number]),"

with the "x [number]" and parentheses being removed if there is only one case. So in the linked example, it would be "6 + ∞," which says the same thing without contradicting itself with a lengthy diatribe.
(Also I had to restrain myself from using * rather than x because that's how I'm used to writing multiplication in equations. Thanks, higher-level math classes defaulting to "X" as a variable! But the asterisk could be used too, anyway.)

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: September 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per
  2. Altendo (talk) - This doesn't sound like a bad idea, although I do think there should be an asterisk like "*" instead which leads to a note saying "not including the infinite [enemy] spawning from [number] [method]", as enemies can spawn in different ways, and showing how they spawn could still be useful. If we just show "∞ x [number]", it wouldn't show how Goombas are spawned in (the linked page doesn't specify how they are spawned in otherwise). But I do like the idea of shortening the "count" section of tables.
  3. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per all.

#ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per Altendo. This formatting is much better, but I also think some note of where the infinite enemy spawner(s) originate from should be preserved.

Oppose

  1. Hewer (talk) I don't see the benefit of changing this. The current wording is straightforward and succinct, I'd expect the reader to understand "6 (not including the infinite Goombas spawning from one Warp Pipe)" easily. Changing it to "6 + ∞" just makes it less clear for no reason, I'd definitely be confused if I saw that and didn't know this specific context. The fact that the other support votes have also brought up how doing this risks losing the specific information completely (and suggested a more long-winded solution that seems to contradict the proposal) compels me to oppose this more.
  2. Waluigi Time (talk) Per Hewer.
  3. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.
  4. Axii (talk) Per Hewer
  5. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per all.
  6. EvieMaybe (talk) we don't need to throw a mathematical equation at people
  7. Sparks (talk) Per all.
  8. ThePowerPlayer (talk) I realized that this only makes sense if you have it explained to you like in the proposal description, which defeats the purpose.

Comments

@Hewer - "succinct" would generally imply "short, sweet, and to-the-point," of which the current method is the exact opposite. I'm fine with including an asterisk-note next to the infinity, but the current one is much too bloated, outright admits to stating false information, and since the tables are center-aligned with that horizontal-bloat, it makes it look incredibly awkward. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:41, September 17, 2024 (EDT)

I guess we just have totally opposing opinions on this one, because I don't personally find ten words of explanation to be "much too bloated", would rather "state false information" (not really what's happening because it's immediately clarified and the only way not to state any "false" info would be to just put "∞" which helps no one) than obscure the meaning of what we're trying to say, and I don't at all think the somewhat wider tables look "incredibly awkward". This is a case where I feel giving more explanation than "6 + ∞" is necessary for the sake of conveying clear information, so I'd rather prioritise that over having a thin table (which I still don't really see why that's so desirable). Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:19, September 18, 2024 (EDT)

If this proposal passes, I think that a dedicated template should be made; something like {{infinite respawn|5|3}} that would produce "5 + (∞ × 3)". Or at the very least, use an actual "×" symbol rather than "x". Jdtendo(T|C) 12:08, September 19, 2024 (EDT)

I dislike the idea of hiding details in easily missable hover text and don't really see the benefit of using it. It just makes it more convoluted. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:12, September 20, 2024 (EDT)

I'll refrain from voting because I have a visceral reaction to anything that resembles a math formula, and I want as little as possible for personal preference to seep into my vote. That's not to say I don't understand what's being proposed, in fact it makes perfect sense if you're aiming strictly for concision, but you'd need to take into account how accessibly that information is communicated--you'd need to establish that "infinity symbol" stands for infinite enemy spawning point, which is not immediately clear. At that point, you'd go for a relatively lengthy explanation nonetheless. Though, I agree that the phrasing in that page you linked doesn't sound inclusive. I think something like "5 individual, 3 infinite spawning points" works better if we're going down this path.
If the proposal passes, I'd like to see it implemented in the manner Jdtendo suggests above.
EDIT: I'm aware there's already plenty of math on this wiki that has potential to confound people, but in that case, not only is its succinctness a better way to explain how the game's scoring system works (as opposed to paragraphs-long descriptions), but it's taken straight out of the game as well. I'd say, use math formulas only when you're sure prose would be of less service to its intended audience: people looking up how many enemies are in a level aren't necessarily interested in complex gameplay dynamics. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 13:12, September 19, 2024 (EDT), edited 14:55, September 19, 2024 (EDT)

I'd personally prefer if this was notated with ω instead of ∞, something like "3ω+5", but that would probably be too confusing to anyone not already familiar with transfinite ordinal notation. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 10:01, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Decide how to handle the "latest portrayal" section in infoboxes

Currently, in infoboxes, the "latest portrayal" section of it is inconsistent across characters. When Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door came out, for example, it listed both Kevin Afghani (Mario's current voice actor) and Charles Martinet (who voices Mario in The Thousand-Year Door from original archival voicing) as Mario's latest portrayals, yet Jen Taylor (whose voice clips were also reused) wasn't added to Peach's latest portrayal. Therefore, to make these infoboxes consistent for characters with multiple voice actors, I am proposing several options:

  • Option 1: Only add in the current voice actor for the character (reissues with archival voices from retired voice actors will not be added).
  • Option 2: Only add in the voice actor for the character in the most recent game (reissues with archival voices will overtake the "current" voice actor if the latest one did not record voice lines for the character, the current voice actor will be re-added to the infobox following the release of a game with voices from the current voice actor).
  • Option 3: Add both the current voice actor and the voice actor for the latest release (this puts two voice actors in the "latest portrayal" section if the character is voiced via archival footage from a retired voice actor, but the current voice actor also gets to remain. When a new game comes out with new voice lines from the current voice actor, the voice actor from the previous release will be removed).
  • Option 4: Do nothing (infoboxes with both actors will not change, and same with infoboxes with the current actor even if a game featuring archival voicing from a retired voice actor is the latest one).

With regards to mixed use of voices, if multiple voice actors voice a single character in a single game, the latest person who voiced the character as of the game's release takes priority, meaning that archival voices from retired actors will not appear in the infobox if the character in that game is also (and especially mostly) voiced by the current actor for that character. As for other media (like The Super Mario Bros. Movie), whether or not the game/other media actor takes priority or if both should be listed is also of question, but I will likely wait until the follow-up to create that proposal.

EDIT: With regards to Tails777's vote, I don't know exactly how it will play out if Option 3 passes, although I will say if a game (like a compilation) does have a single character voiced by more than one voice actor who isn't the current one, the latest voice actor whose voice clips are used in the game as of the game's release will be the second option added to the infobox (like Peach in 3D All-Stars, who would've listes Samantha Kelly as her current and Galaxy voice actress, as well as Jen Taylor as her Sunshine voice actress, although I don't think it would be that consistent because it would exclude Leslie Swan, her 64 voice actress, but since Jen Taylor was the more recent of the two, she is the one who is listed).

Proposer: Altendo (talk)
Deadline: September 21, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Only add in the current voice actor

  1. Altendo (talk) Primary choice. "Latest portrayal", to me, means the person who last voiced the character, and I don't think archival voices should count as this, especially since those voices were recorded before the current voice actor. This also avoids the issues of multiple voice actors voicing a single character in compilations and switching/adding or removing voice actors when reissues and original games come out (as described below).
  2. Shadow2 (talk) Re-using old sound clips has no bearing on a character's "Latest portrayal". Charles does not voice Mario anymore, and to list him as such just because of older re-used sound clips is misrepresentative.
  3. Hewer (talk) Per both, this is the less misleading option (the infobox doesn't specify whether the "latest" voice actor was just re-usage of old voice clips, so listing both Charles and Kevin gives the impression that they're both actively voicing Mario, which is wrong).
  4. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per all.
  5. Scrooge200 (talk) The Mario franchise re-uses voice clips all the time. Having Charles listed there under a new game could give the false impression that he returned to voice Mario for that.
  6. Tails777 (talk) The main supporting vote here has a better point, now leaning more to this one.
  7. ThePowerPlayer (talk) After considering it, this makes the most sense to me; it's the most straightforward option and avoids possible misrepresentation.

Only add in the the voice actor for the "latest" game

#Altendo (talk) Tertiary choice. If "Latest portrayal" really means the person who voiced the character in the latest game, regardless of said actor's as-of-game-release status, then maybe archival voices can count because it is the voice of the character in the "latest" game. I do not recommend this option as this will cause a lot of infobox editing and switching voice actors when reissues (particularly ports and remasters) do inevitably come out, and if a compilation game (like Super Mario 3D All-Stars) comes out, multiple voice actors who voice the same character in a single compilation (like Princess Peach, who had three voice actresses in a single compilation) will stack up in the infoboxes. And when a new game comes out, all of that is thrown out the window, reverting to their current voice actor. This is why some were against enforcing the absolute "latest" portrayals in a previous proposal. The only reason why I am for this is consistency.

Add both current and latest voice actor

  1. Tails777 (talk) Leaning to a secondary vote; it's best to keep it up to date when it comes to VAs, but it isn't uncommon for various games to recycle voice clips (TTYD once again being a good example). I feel it is best to at least acknowledge if voice clips get recycled in this respect, though I also feel this should be limited to one at a time, in case there are examples where someone had more than even two voice actors.
  2. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.

#Altendo (talk) Secondary choice. It feels nice to respect both the voice actor who is currently voicing the character and the person whose voices, even in archival, are the sole ones used in the latest game. However, my point about voice actor switching, while not as big as an issue because archival voice actors will only be added rather than replace the current one, still kind of stands because reissues will add the archival voice actor for one game, only to remove it when a new game comes out. Additionally, if compilations only contain voices from retired voice actors, this will stack it up even more (although for 3D All-Stars, it still wouldn't change much due to Peach's Super Mario Galaxy voice actress still being her current one). Still, this does make the infoboxes consistent.

Do nothing

Comments

I'm conflicted between simply listing only whoever is currently voicing the character vs. potentially opening a can of worms by listing multiple actors from archival clips, even though that would respect the portrayals from the most recent game whether it used newly recorded or archived voices. No matter how this proposal ends up, I think that a future proposal should consider standardizing the "Portrayals" header in the character articles themselves. For Mario, the list of portrayals does a great job at comprehensively documenting everyone who has officially voiced Mario, but falters in conveying the inconceivable magnitude of media in which Martinet has voiced Mario, and how much he has contributed to the character's brand recognition to the point where many people will continue to see him as the voice of Mario, even moving forward as Kevin Afghani takes on that role. ThePowerPlayer Slug.png ThePowerPlayer 23:57, September 16, 2024 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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