Talk:Terrormisu

Terrormisu picture

Can anyone upload a picture of Terrormisu to the Wiki and post it on this page? I want to know what she looks like and I don't want to advance in the game!
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rabidchomp (talk).

Super Princess Peach connection

In her boss fight, she uses 3 emotions as transformations, joy, sadness, and rage. Peach also uses these transformations, and even uses the same attacks, water, fire, and (possibly) wind (I've noticed many games represent "wind attacks" as cutters.)

I think it's fair to note Terrormisu, due to the fact that she appears to be a very blatant "parody", almost a direct ripoff, of Peach, is most likely also parodying her own game that had recently released before Master of Disguise on the same console.

These games also share a director, Azusa Tajima, who doesn't have a page here. I thought it was worth mentioning, though I'm not sure how much influence she would have had on the final boss' design concept as I'm not super familiar with what game directors have specific control over. So I'm not sure if that mention is appropriate. She is also only involved in four Mario games and only directed these two. (Apparently she was an assistant director for Wario World though)

Still, I think it is very notable that Terrormisu, the villain whose entire concept is that she is a twisted ripoff of Princess Peach, copies the gimmick for Peach's only game at the time. I think it's a very interesting detail that deserves to be mentioned.

Rendumguy (talk) 21:52, November 27, 2025 (EST)

As stated here, Terrormisu's mask phases (and her default mask) are most likely based on the same thing that Ogerpon's masks are based on; namely, Nōgaku theater, or more specifically, the four temperaments in East Asian theater, aka 喜怒哀楽 kidoairaku: joy, anger, sorrow, and happiness/fulfillment. While these are the same moods represented by the vibes in Super Princess Peach, I would moreso call that a reference to Nōgaku and kidoairaku too (in fact, our vibes article already notes the latter), and Terrormisu's resemblance to Peach in her fight are mere coincidence. After all, Terrormisu's second phase (the joy phase) is entirely gray as opposed to PPS!Joy's yellow color, and the attacks in that phase have absolutely nothing to do with the whirlwind that Peach uses.
Moreover, also said in the linked conversation, a typical depiction of a princess shows her young and pretty with a pink dress, blonde hair, and a tiara. Peach and Terrormisu in her battle are examples of this depiction, but so is Princess Aurora, in the Disney Princess franchise anyway. Just look up "cartoon princess" or "princess costume" on Google, and I assure you most of the images you'll find show pink dresses and/or long, blonde hair. Since it's a very common depiction of a princess, calling Terrormisu a "blatant parody" of Peach specifically feels waaaay too speculative. rend (talk) (edits) 18:46, April 27, 2026 (UTC)

The character design is clearly based on Princess Peach though, and this isn't comparable to other princesses as both of these are Mario characters and thus less likely to be cooncidental like Aurora from Sleeping Beauty, a character from a completely different franchise, medium, and company, someone in the other threat said Princess Shroob isn't based on Peach, but she clearly is, even with all her differences, she's based on Peach's design and the Shroobs are based on Toads, complete with Shroobsworth, a blatant reference to Toadsworth. I dunno if people just use "reference" differently but it's clearly based on Peach's design.

The fact that her design is a *princess* at all to begin with is important since Terrormisu isn't a princess and doesn't wear a crown until this form, you never even get to fight the "princess" form, the only notable thing about is its similaity to Peach. The earrings match, they have similar hair, a crown, the top of the dress is similar, they both have a jewel in the middle of their chest, as are the gloves. There are obvious differences, but the general vibe of the design is incredibly similar to Princess Peach.

I don't buy that Terrormisu looking like that isn't meant to be a reference to Peach, the design is uncannily similar, it's clearly intentional, Peach is too important a Mario character for this not to be the intention with the game starring a character who's conception was to be a "rip-off" of Mario.

Rendumguy (talk) 21:18, April 27, 2026 (UTC)

"The character design is clearly based on Princess Peach" is an entirely subjective take, though, as I can easily point out several clear differences between the two designs:

1. Most obvious difference: Terrormisu is wearing a silver, dragon-shaped tiara without any gemstones. Peach wears a small, regular crown with red and blue gemstones.
2. Terrormisu's hair has two bangs split down the middle (closer to Daisy's hairstyle) and a shoulder-length cut with bulbous ends. Peach's bangs are split into three parts, and her hair length runs down her back to her bottom woth pointed ends.
3. Terrormisu's dress is entirely hot pink, has a ballerina-style skirt, and includes pink stockings. Peach's gown is predominantly light pink with magenta accents on the bottom of her bell-shaped long skirt and her panniers.
4. Terrormisu has a green brooch on her chest, Peach's brooch is blue like her earrings. (This one is admittedly more subtle)

Yes, they do look alike, but there's too many differences for me to ascertain that one is a clear reference to the other like you keep saying. If Terrormisu's boss form is supposed to be a parody of Peach, I'd rather have that confirmed by an official source than just assumption.
Additionally, bringing up the Shroobs in this is not a good comparison. The Shroob army consists of a various amount of Shroobs and Shroob-like creatures that are a clear pastiche of various Super Mario characters and enemies, in a game that also takes place in a Super Mario world. Terrormisu is part of a TV show within a Wario game with has little to no references to the world of Super Mario (in fact, the worlds in the Wario franchise itself are more often than not very distant to that of Mario... I think only the first Wario Land game actually references things from the Mario world, such as the giant Peach statue that Captain Syrup has stolen). Anything in Wario: Master of Disguise is completely different from Mario, and entirely unique to itself. So any vague similarities (e.g. Gooey bearing a resemblance to Boo) might as well be coincidence.
...Also, next time you're posting a picture of Peach, could you please try to shrink it down a bit, instead of posting the file's full resolution in the page? It kinda distracts from the conversation that way. rend (talk) (edits) 22:30, April 27, 2026 (UTC)

I don't think listing off minor differences between the two designs really disproves the point that they are extremely similar to each other. I find it quite unlikely that someone designing a character for a Wario game had never seen Princess Peach before and just coincidentally happened to make a design that looks that close to hers. (That said, I don't think the article should definitively state a connection in the absence of an official statement on the matter, but I think it would be fine to at least neutrally point out the striking resemblance.) Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 22:48, April 27, 2026 (UTC)

That's fair; I just thought it was overly presumptuous of them to see two vaguely similar designs and then claim it must be a clear reference, when it might as well be a Nabbit/Ravio situation. rend (talk) (edits) 23:13, April 27, 2026 (UTC)

Context is important, and I think the standards are a bit different when one of the characters we're dealing with is Princess Peach (one of the most well-known video game characters ever). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 23:21, April 27, 2026 (UTC)

Establish that Terrormisu is based on Princess Peach's design.

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

do not establish 2-8

The character is clearly intended to look like Princess Peach. Peach is one of the most well known Mario characters and it's very unlikely that somebody designing a character for a Mario game would not know who she is, especially since the director of Wario Master of Disguise worked on a game starring Peach. Yes, a director doesn't work on every little detail of the game, but to think that the artist working on Terrormisu's design just happened to make such an accurate design by accident is extremely unlikely.

They both have pink dresses and a crown. Both have a round colored gem on their chest with puffed sleeves and elbow length gloves They both have long, blonde hair with a crown on top.

There are differences, but not enough so that design can't be identified as similar to Peach. Even outside of the Mario franchise, looking at other princesses like Aurora, there are significantly more similarities between Terrormisu and Princess Peach.

Both are designed as crowned princesses, despite Terrormisu having no connection to being a princess, she's just a demon, and her normal design before her "Princess" form looks significantly less like Peach.

Even if you have an argument she isn't, and these similarities are somehow coincidental, this is clearly worthy of being at least mentioned as a similar design.

While the page doesn't call her "ugly", Terrormisu's design is meant to be a conventionally "unattractive" character wearing a mask to pretend that she's a "prettier" person than she actually is, with the Mario series tending to use Peach as a symbol of "beauty" and "purity", contrasting Terrormisu, who's a conventionally "unattractive" demon with the opposite demeanor of Peach. This is seen in Super Paper Mario, TTYD, even Mario Party 3, Superstar Saga, it's a very common trope that Peach is a uniquely "Good" character in universe. TTYD even features a demon possessing Peach in a game that features a contrast between a "pure evil" demon and a "pure good" Peach.

This of course is much weaker evidence than the design, but a symbol of "pure evil", combined with her uncanny resemblance to Peach, seems like it's obviously trying to show that the character's appearsnce based on Peach.

Furthermore, Terrormisu comes from the Wario series, a series starring a "ripoff" version of Mario, Mario.

Proposer: rendumguy (talk)
Deadline: May 11, 2026, 23:59 (UTC)

It should be written in Terrormisu's page that the character's "princess design" is based on Princess Peach

1. rendumguy (talk) Per proposal.
2. Conradd (talk) Glad I’m not the only one who noticed. This proposal reminded me of the whole Look-alike Category debacle when, I dared to say that Terrormisu’s and Daisy’s (classic) appearances were based on Peach, and was accused of abusing the Category system. Ahhhh... Those were good times... yep... truly good times indeed... Per proposal.

Opposition

1. Camwoodstock (talk) There was a whole talk about this, and a whole lot has actually already been said. But, in short, Terrormisu's masks and Super Princess Peach's vibes are probably far more likely both playing on Nōgaku theatre, rather than one another. For the long explanation, though... The argument that this is a deliberate reference hinges entirely on the mutual director for both games, but said director, Azusa Tajima, has been all over the place, being either Director or Assistant Director to Nintendo Puzzle Collection and Densetsu no Starfy 3, Game & Watch Gallery 4, Wario World and Dr. Mario 64. Notably, with the exception of Nintendo Puzzle Collection featuring a port of Dr. Mario 64 (nevermind that ports aren't references to their original game), none of these titles feature a reference to one another in such a capacity as this would be. Heck, Densetsu no Starfy 3, the game that features an actual level dedicated entirely to an homage to another Mario game, is in reference to... Wario Land 4, a game where Azusa Tajima had zero involvement. They pretty clearly could've done it and been really, really overt about it, but they did not. We find it far more likely to believe that these two games independently decided to reference Nōgaku-style plays, moreso than we would believe that the main antagonist of Wario: Master of Disguise is this director's singular instance of them making an incredibly explicit homage to a game they previously directed, when that is behavior that has never been exhibited by said director neither prior, nor since, the release of Master of Disguise. This is ignoring the more banal observations, such as the boss' more tutu-style ballerina dress contrasting with Peach's gown (this single distinction being enough to deprive Terrormisu from counting as a "Peach look-alike" for the sake of categorization awhile ago), or the fact this argument requires you to earnestly look at thisMedia:TerrormisuHappyForm.png and say "it's exactly like the Joy form!"
2. Sir Wandering Poplin (talk) My response was initially a lot longer, but seeing as Camwoodstock has already covered most of what I wanted to say, I have mostly condensed my counterargument down into two key points. 1: This theory does not properly account for Wario Land 4, which may well be a more likely inspiration for Terrormisu since it had it's own "pseudo-Princess Peach" character as well as a Final boss who utilized a very similar gimmick in her fight. 2: The counter-theory of "There's only so many ways to draw a 'pink clad, blonde-haired princess' without her looking like a pre-existing character." After all, it's not like Princess Toadstool is the only character in the series to have those traits...
3. Arend (talk) Per all and myself in the above discussion. It's fine to mention her bearing a slight resemblance to Peach, and maybe also how her masks and Peach's vibes in Super Princess Peach both share their origins in kidoairaku (the four temperaments in the Confucian Book of Rites and East Asian theater), but not more than that. We don't know for sure if Terrormisu's boss form was supposed to be a big reference or parody to Peach and Super Princess Peach, that's mere speculation. It COULD be the case, but since a typical depiction of a pretty princess has blonde hair and a pink dress as well (and that sadness is typically associated with water, and anger typically with fire), it is just as likely that it could be coincidence, like how Nabbit and Ravio unintentionally inspired each other during the developments of New Super Mario Bros. U and The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds.
4. Power Flotzo (talk) Per all.
5. Rykitu (talk) Per the section below this proposal's comment section.
6. The Dab Master (talk) Per all.
7. Sir Yoshi-A-Lot (talk) Per all, mainly Camwoodstock, Sir Wandering Poplin and Arend.
8. Mario (talk) Per all. This talk page shouldn't have been in the state it's currently in.

Comments

...couldn't you have at least waited for a counter-response in the above discussion? I was busy writing one (and fixing the size of your posted image) when suddenly I found myself in an edit conflict to see this whole proposal that I'm not sure is necessary right now (it didn't even have a comment section). rend (talk) (edits) 22:40, April 27, 2026 (UTC)

I will also add to Camwoodstock's statement regarding both games sharing a director meaning absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, regarding something I've found out for a proposal I made a couple months ago.
Kensuke Tanabe is credited as a producer for both Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!, and Donkey Kong Country Returns. In an Iwata Asks for the latter game, Tanabe states his favorite types of level featured the Rocket Barrel, which he claims to be a mechanic that "wasn't in the series before", without ever making a remark about a similar barrel-like rocket that appeared in the former game. These are from two games in the same franchise. If a producer doesn't see (or recall) an object from one game to be a reference from another game in the same series that they also worked on, how would a final boss from one game be a "clear reference" to a completely different game from a different subseries that just so happens to also share a producer? rend (talk) (edits) 23:05, April 27, 2026 (UTC)

I don't see how that proves anything? Kensuke Tanabe is a different guy, the rocket barrel is a comparatively more minor element of the game, and those games came out over a decade apart from each other (unlike here where it was a couple years). And anyway, I don't think the shared director is the main crux of the argument (contrary to Camwoodstock's claim), it's just an extra bit of circumstantial evidence to further suggest that the already observed similarities are less likely to just be coincidental. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 23:18, April 27, 2026 (UTC)

Another counterargument which came to mind regarding the matter is the simple fact that, aside from the title character himself, virually no pre-existing characters from either the Mario series, or the Wario series appear in Master of Disguise. So why would the developers choose to "parody" Princess Peach in a game that has almost no relation to the Mario franchise at all?

I mean, there's a non 0% chance that this game wasn't even initially supposed to include Wario in the first place, and he may have been added in later for marketing purposes. (Mind you, that's only a theory. But it does sound plausible...). Wandering Poplin (talk) 00:32, April 28, 2026 (UTC)

"Why would Wario reference a Mario character in a game with no Mario references" isn't really an argument against the character being based on Peach or not. I mean Wario being there himself proves that "Mario characters" are allowed, and a character being a reference to or based on another character does not mean that's the same character.

Why would Warioware Move it reference Cractus, a one time dead character from Wario Land 4 when the Warioware series has never directly referenced a Wario Land original?

Why would Mario 64 DS being back a Paper Mario character, Goomboss, for seemingly no reason? Why would Mario Party 7 make Paper Mario characters its hosts for seemingly no reason? When Paper Mario characters almost never appear in other Mario subseries?

Why would Wario Land 4 have Mr. Game & Watch as a princess?

Why would Super Princess Peach have a Starfy based enemy when the game has nothing to do with Starfy? Why would Wario himself be a major character in a Starfy game? (Incidentally the developer brought up here also works on the Starfy series)

Also, internally the developers of the game consider it similar to Wario Land, despite its differences. They even got the creator of the character Wario involved in some of his disguise designs. It's likely it was always intended to be a Wario game.

Rendumguy (talk) 02:49, April 28, 2026 (UTC)

Those are all well and good, but Terrormisu otherwise has nothing to do with Peach. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:55, April 28, 2026 (UTC)

@Rendumguy, You seem to have somewhat misinterpreted my point. I'm not arguing that "No Mario characters were allowed in the game, (Other than Wario) therefore, Tiaramisu cannot be based on Princess Peach."

What I meant was more along the lines of "Since very few pre-existing Mario elements appear in the game (Other than Wario), the chances of Tiaramisu specifically being based on Princess Peach, rather than just any generic 'pink pretty princess' are significantly lower." As stated in my vote, "There's only so many ways to draw a 'pink clad, blonde-haired princess' without her looking like a pre-existing character", and there's plenty of non-Mario princesses who tend to share a lot of her design traits, even within Nintendo itself. Directly stating in the article that this character is definitively based on Peach, without any sources other than theories, coincidences, and speculation, doesn't just contradict our good writing policy, it could potentially qualify as straight-up misinformation, which is the last thing we'd want on this wiki.

Also, regarding one of your points in particular, I'd like to remind you that the Shop owner is not currently considered to be "based on" Mr. Game & Watch. The article does note the resemblance, but it does not make any conclusive statements regarding the matter. Wandering Poplin (talk) 06:01, April 28, 2026 (UTC)

I'm confused. If this proposal passes, would the article definitively state that Terrormisu is based on Peach, or would it just point out the similarities without claiming them to definitely be related? The latter is what I'm in support of. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:39, April 29, 2026 (UTC)

I would assume it's the former, since the latter was already noted and adjusted long before Rendumguy initially added the SPP connections to the page, and has been re-adjusted since this proposal came out; and when the Peach resemblance bit was briefly removed, Rendumguy re-added that bit, but with "vague" replaced with "strong" whilst also trying to make it "less declarative as a 'reference'" compared to their previous edits regarding the vibes, and in the section above, Rendumguy notes that it's a fact that she "appears to be a very blatant "parody", almost a direct ripoff, of Peach". Not to mention the proposal literally started with "The character is clearly intended to look like Princess Peach." To me, it sounds like Rendumguy REALLY wants to establish that Terrormisu is 100% based on Peach (without a source), rather than just point that they look vaguely similar. rend (talk) (edits) 10:02, May 2, 2026 (UTC)

Also, in the section below, Rendumguy later clarified that they"assumed most people would separate "reference" with "similarity", and know the proposal is about the reference." rend (talk) (edits) 10:13, May 2, 2026 (UTC)

Wherein a user invites further tedious debate about an obscure one-off boss in a Wario game

abandon all hope ye who enter here

Why can't even Terrormisu's emotions being similar to Peach's be mentioned? One, this is unrelated to the proposal, the proposal is if Terromisu is INSPIRED by Peach or not, not if they're similar, which is a completely different subject that is much easier to argue. So why is it wrong to mention a notable "coincidence" (if you believe it's unintentional) like this? It's worth mentioning that a character who looks just like Princess Peach uses the same emotions as Princess Peach, Calm, Joy, Rage, Sadness, with Sadness and rage even having the same elements of water and fire that Peach has. Rendumguy (talk) 22:19, April 28, 2026 (UTC) ...because you opted to propose if it should be mentioned? Even if it was to pass, that wouldn't be permitted to be added to the page until it does pass. You can't just propose something, and then, in the middle of it being voted on, implement it anyways in the meantime. That's not how proposals work. For the record, if the proposal were to fail, it would be acceptable to mention the link to Nōgaku theatre on both Terrormisu's page and the Vibe page, but outright linking the two together as a "reference" or otherwise wouldn't be acceptable, since that's what the proposal is about. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 22:24, April 28, 2026 (UTC) No, I proposed that Terrormisu should be established to be based on Peach's design, nothing about that has to do with the emotions thing. Re read the proposal, I never mentioned it because I knew it would be a much more controversial proposal if I did. I even contemplated mentioning that this has nothing to do with the emotions thing. Also, one of the Oppose votes supports mentioning the similarity between their emotions. Rendumguy (talk) 22:28, April 28, 2026 (UTC) "For the record, if the proposal were to fail, it would be acceptable to mention the link to Nōgaku theatre on both Terrormisu's page and the Vibe page, but outright linking the two together as a "reference" or otherwise wouldn't be acceptable, since that's what the proposal is about." The last edit wasn't linking it together as a "reference", it was just saying that this similar character had a similar gimmick to another one, not referring to whether or not it's a reference, something that many other articles on this site do... There's a difference between saying something is "similar" and that it's a "reference". People disagree with it being a reference, fine, but saying that them sharing the exact same set of emotions is "similar" is just a detail about the character. Rendumguy (talk) 22:34, April 28, 2026 (UTC) ...Okay, if "simply acknowledging the visual similarities, outside of any specific links to the vibes" was what was intended to be proposed, then something has gone fundamentally wrong with the proposal itself. Nobody in the prior conversation was telling you you can't acknowledge Princess Peach also has a pink dress, the problem was saying that the boss fight is, very specifically, a reference to Super Princess Peach's vibe mechanic. That much is an extrapolation that is a bridge too far, and relies on a definition of "reference" the wiki generally does not operate under. We assumed, and we reckon most other voters assumed, the proposal was about the "boss fight is a reference to vibes" thing, not "can we say her pink dress is like Peach's." ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 22:38, April 28, 2026 (UTC) ...Yeah, I too thought that the whole Super Princess Peach connection you kept bringing up in prior discussions was part of your proposal as well, and that because of that connection with the emotions (on top of the blonde hair and pink dress, of course), it would corroborate to your claim that Terrormisu is a clear reference/parody of Princess Peach instead of simply vaguely resembling her. I thought that the supposed connection to SPP and their respective uses of the Confucian emotions were a fundamental part of your claim and proposal. rend (talk) (edits) 22:53, April 28, 2026 (UTC) The emotions weren't part of the proposal, if they were I would have mentioned them. Whether or not this character is similar to Peach is a different question than if this character is an intentional reference to Peach. Rendumguy (talk) 10:44, April 29, 2026 (UTC) I feel like it behooved you to at least have clarified that in the proposal, considering that, again, you had consistently claimed that the Terrormisu fight is a big reference to Super Princess Peach, and in turn that Terrormisu is a blatant parody of Peach partially because of that. Since you kept bringing that up even minutes prior to the proposal (as you made it during a very recent conversation about the same subject), most people would assume that the SPP connection still very much part of the overall Peach connection you're claiming Terrormisu has. rend (talk) (edits) 11:51, April 29, 2026 (UTC) I was going to, I thought it was unnecessary and would annoy people by bringing it up in an unrelated proposal, looks like that was a mistake. I assumed most people would separate "reference" with "similarity", and know the proposal is about the reference. Rendumguy (talk) 16:44, April 29, 2026 (UTC) I mean, I understand where you're coming from, but considering you were still on it about both "Terrormisu is a reference of Peach" and "Terrormisu's battle references Super Princess Peach" (as part of the same topic) within an hour before starting a proposal about the former, it's not surprising that people have conflated the two topics, since you yourself intertwining the two was still fresh on their minds. In your case, it wouldn't hurt to clarify regardless of timing. Also, the problem wasn't that people conflated "reference" with "similarity", the problem is that they conflated "Terrormisu is a reference of Peach" with "Terrormisu's battle references Super Princess Peach". rend (talk) (edits) 10:11, May 2, 2026 (UTC) What is the issue mentioning that Terrormisu's four emotions are the same as Peach's four emotions? Many characters on this wiki have "this attribute is similar to (blank)". I think a character with a similar design to Peach having the same set of emotions is worth mentioning. This is a notable similarity and shouldn't be reverted. The page already establishes that Terrormisu *looks like* Peach, so somehow it shouldn't be mentioned that she has the same set of emotions associated with Peach? That doesn't make sense. Rendumguy (talk) 12:17, May 9, 2026 (UTC) ...This is what the entire conversation above was about? It is far more helpful to acknowledge the link to Japanese theatre than it is to bury the lede with the Super Princess Peach connection. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 15:06, May 9, 2026 (UTC) Nobody is explaining why this isn't worth mentioning on this page, they're mentioning the proposal (which is about the character being a reference and not about them being similar), but nobody is saying why two characters having a similar ability isn't worth mentioning on the page. So, without saying "this is not a reference" why is Terrormisu, a character with a similar design to Peach, having a similar unique and specific set of emotions not worth mentioning that it's SIMILAR to Princess Peach? What is the flaw here? The recent edit never claimed it was a referenced, it just pointed out a trait that happened to be similar. Rendumguy (talk) 15:14, May 9, 2026 (UTC) ...Okay. Let's give a play-by-play of the events here, because at this point, we feel like there's assumptions being made about the entire preceding conversation if the question "why can I not mention the visual similarities at least?" is being asked this far into it. We are initially asked, very specifically, on our own talk page, to allow including Terrormisu in the references section of Super Princess Peach's page, and on the Vibe page under the same pretense. The reason cited is because Azusa Tajima is a mutual director of the titles. This all started because we were, on our own talk page, expressly told the sentence, "I think it should be mentioned in the references section on the Super Princess Peach page and the Vibe page." That is the statement we were told, and have been responding to, for two weeks, on-and-off, by now. We refuse this, as we don't see the director connection as a valid reason to consider this a "reference" in the absence of any direct confirmation, and it is brought up by somebody else that both are drawing from Nōgaku theatre. We off-handedly mention you could propose this, but we don't view this as being a popular decision. This conversation persists, bringing up thinks such similar color schemes and whatnot, until it moves off of our own talk page to this talk page. Without much prompting or consultation in the middle of the conversation, it is abruptly proposed. It is not a popular decision, as most people in the conversation don't agree that Terrormisu's boss fight is in any way a direct reference to the core mechanic of Super Princess Peach, but it's more likely that they are pulling from the same inspiration, kind of like how the Sunshine Raccoons and Tanooki Mario both pull from tanuki. Each of the opposition votes are directed at claiming the boss fight is a reference to Vibes specifically, over being based on that form of Japanese theatre. After the vote has already reached a negative consensus, it is abruptly claimed that no, the proposal is not about claiming the boss fight is a reference to Super Princess Peach, nor that this link should be put on the Vibes page, but it is actually about claiming Princess Peach and Terrormisu... have color similarities. This shows a pretty stark discrepancy between what the conversation was about, what people were voting for, and what was supposedly being voted for. The conversation awkwardly halts... Until now, where a point about the visual similarity is added in the twee hours of the morning. From this, there's two entirely different things based entirely on what the proposal was actually meant to be for... But neither of them are actually ideal for allowing that sentence to fly. If the proposal is actually meant to only be about this as was claimed, you cannot do that because... You proposed whether or not you can do that, and even if it was set to pass, you couldn't implement it until it passed. Because it failed, if this is what the proposal was meant to be about all along, then, per proposal, we do not see this as a valid comparison to make. To circle back to the Sunshine comparison; we don't say the Sunshine Raccoons are "like Tanooki Mario", we say they're like the tanuki. That's fine, as it brings direct attention to the actual inspiration, irrespective of what other things in the franchise also reference it. What would not be valid is asserting they're a "reference" to Tanooki Mario, just because both of them are based on tanuki. This is a precedent set by the proposal itself. The absence of the word "reference" isn't a silver bullet, either, as, under this pretense, the proposal isn't about a "reference" anyways? The "flaw" is that, under the assumption that this visual similarity is what was proposed, then you literally proposed if you should be able to do that or not, and regardless of its result, trying to add it to the page before the proposal concludes would go against proposal protocols. And, if the proposal fails, you would be unable to do this, per the proposal itself. If the proposal was meant to be about claiming it's a reference specifically to the Vibe mechanic, regardless of the visual similarity, then... Again, this still flies in the face of how we convey these sorts of "mutually referencing the same thing" deals? For example, two issues of the Kodansha manga, namely Super Mario: Yoshi no Road Hunting 1 and Mario & Wario , feature a gag where the characters go to Juliana's, a real-world Japanese dance club that existed during the stories' publication. Obviously, the Mario & Wario issue is not a "reference" to the Yoshi's Safari issue, it's a reference to the real-world Japanese dance club. The "Cameos and caricatures" section (the Kodansha manga's equivalent to the references section) tracks this accordingly. The "flaw" is that this is not how we handle reference sections, nor their equivalents, anywhere else, and, again, if this is what the proposal was about, then adding it would go against proposal protocols, and if it failed, you would be unable to do this, per the proposal itself. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 17:44, May 9, 2026 (UTC) "Until now, where a point about the visual similarity is added in the twee hours of the morning." Wait, is this about Terrormisu and Peach having visual similarities again? Because that wasn't added earlier today; the vibes comparison was (they practically repeated an addition from last week and a half). The visual similarity (without calling it a reference) was already on the page, yet the last points here read as if you believe Rendumguy just added and and it had just been reverted. rend (talk) (edits) 19:19, May 9, 2026 (UTC) ...Rendumguy, I couldn't help but notice this specific portion in your question: "[...] why is Terrormisu, a character with a similar design to Peach, having a similar unique and specific set of emotions [...]" As I've stated multiple times before, the four temperaments of joy, anger, sorrow and fulfillment/calmness, these are the same set of emotions as described in the Confucian Book of Rites, and the same set of emotions as used in East Asian theater, to the point that they're also described under a term that literally combines the four words (喜怒哀楽 kidoairaku). These four temperaments are grouped together often enough that it's regarded as a common theme (such as with Ogerpon and its masks, where I found the terms), at least in East Asian culture. So with that said, why did you describe this theme as, specifically, as a "similar, unique and specific set of emotions"? It almost sounds like you keep conflating this particular set of emotions as something that's completely unique and specific to Peach. The thing is, the very fact that it is a common enough theme in East Asian culture and theater automatically means it simply ISN'T unique to Peach at all. If it were, then it wouldn't have been an age-old theme in the first place. rend (talk) (edits) 19:19, May 9, 2026 (UTC) I second what Arend said, the emotions used for Peach in Super Princess Peach are just four of the six standard emotions. Not unique to just Peach at all. Yoshi18 (talk/contribs) 19:25, May 9, 2026 (UTC) It's specifically referencing kidoairaku because it regards joy and happiness/calmness as two separate emotions. In Western culture, those are often conflated into one emotion of happiness, and instead, we have the addition of fear, surprise and disgust, none of which are present with SPP Peach, Terrormisu, or Ogerpon. rend (talk) (edits) 19:46, May 9, 2026 (UTC) "After the vote has already reached a negative consensus, it is abruptly claimed that no, the proposal is not about claiming the boss fight is a reference to Super Princess Peach, nor that this link should be put on the Vibes page, but it is actually about claiming Princess Peach and Terrormisu... have color similarities. This shows a pretty stark discrepancy between what the conversation was about, what people were voting for, and what was supposedly being voted for. The conversation awkwardly halts..." No, no, no, this is completely wrong, I NEVER said the proposal wasn't about the reference, I said that the edit I made was not about the reference. The proposal IS about the reference, the edit isn't because a SIMILARITY isn't inherently a reference. You're confusing yourself and arguing with nothing. After people started messing with this page and reverting the edits, none of my edits had anything to do with my proposal. "Terrormisu has a similar emotion gimmick" does not equal "Terrormisu is a reference to Peach". I think both are true, but the edits that keep being reverted are NOT about a reference, they are about a general similarity. So what is wrong with the edit itself if it's unrelated to the proposal? If people already independent of myself cane to the conclusion that the exact same Buddhist emotion pattern was shared by both Terrormisu and Peach? Rendumguy (talk) 21:12, May 9, 2026 (UTC) 3/4 of Terrormisu's masks directly correlate to the emotion and power of the Vibes in Super Princess Peach I didn't mention it because I thought only half shared powers, but no, the "Calm" Mask heals Terrormisu, the same thing the Calm Vibe does in Super Princess Peach. The "angry" state of both Terrormisu and the Vibes allows the user to use fire. The "sad" state allows the user to use water powers. The "calm" state allows the user to heal itself. The only mask I can't see the connection is the happy one, some games use crescent blasts as wind, which would fit, but they don't seem like wind to me in Terrormisu's fight. While the proposal concludes it should not be called a reference, sure, fine, I think this is further reason for the similarities of the masks of Terrormisu and the Vibes of Super Princess Peach to be mentioned. Rendumguy (talk) 15:26, May 12, 2026 (UTC) Why do you keep making new sections over this same topic? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:29, May 12, 2026 (UTC) As I briefly mentioned in the proposal, sadness is already typically associated with water, and anger is already typically associated with fire. When you're sad and cry, tears come out of your eyes, which are made of salted water; a very common exaggeration of this in cartoons is that when a character bawls, waterfalls come out of their eyes. So of course that's exactly what happens when Peach uses the Gloom vibe, and of course Terrormisu overflows the battlefield with water with her "sad" mask. When you're angry, you typically get hotheaded and react violently; another common exaggeration in cartoons is when a character gets furious, they get literally set on fire. Again, that's literally what happens to Peach when she uses the Rage vibe, and of course this is why Terrormisu's "angry" mask literally sets the battlefield on fire. Of course both of them have the emotions tied to the same element; just like with kidoairaku, sadness = water and anger = fire are VERY common themes, except it's not even exclusive to East Asian culture this time: these themes are employed in the west, too! Also, where did you get the idea that Terrormisu's default mask (the "calm" one) allows her to heal herself? That's literally not what happens. If you actually watched the boss fight, you'll see that Terrormisu only appears with her default mask when a phase is over, and she only seems to use it to summon the Wishstones and make direct use of them. This has nothing to do with actually healing herself. rend (talk) (edits) 15:52, May 12, 2026 (UTC) Proposal failed. I see little reason to continue debate over this. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:26, May 12, 2026 (UTC) They mentioned in an earlier convo above that the proposal was specifically about calling Terrormisu's physical appearance a reference to Peach, rather than her boss battle being one to Peach's vibe powers in SPP. That said, I agree, this topic needs to be dropped at this point. This whole talk page is basically talking in circles - concentric circles - with four topics started by the same guy which all have basically the same subjects and goals, and with nearly no one convinced. It's tiring. rend (talk) (edits) 20:16, May 12, 2026 (UTC) It may also be worth noting that, by Super Princess Peach's own logic, the Calm state is not the same thing as the "default" state. But apart from that, I agree with Arend's sentiments about dropping the subject. Wandering Poplin (talk) 20:54, May 12, 2026 (UTC)