MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

From the Super Mario Wiki, the Mario encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
(→‎Miscellaneous: Proposal passed)
 
Line 1: Line 1:
<table style="background:#fefffe;color:black;-moz-border-radius:8px;border:2px solid black;padding:4px" width=100%><tr><td>
{{/Header}}
<div class="proposal">
==Writing guidelines==
<center>http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/17/f_propcopym_9045f2d.png</center>
''None at the moment.''
<br clear="all">
{| align="center" style="width: 85%; background-color: #f1f1de; border: 2px solid #996; padding: 5px; color:black"
|'''Proposals''' can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] before any action(s) are done.
*Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
*"Vote" periods last for one week.
*All past proposals are [[/Archive|archived]].
|}
A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code <nowiki>{{user|</nowiki>''User name''<nowiki>}}</nowiki>. '''Signing with the signature code <nowiki>~~~(~)</nowiki> is not allowed''' due to technical issues.


<h2 style="color:black">How To</h2>
==New features==
#Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
===Create the Dragon Quest Wiki template===
#Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
{{early notice|May 31, 2025}}
##Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
This proposal is based on [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66#Create The Cutting Room Floor link template|the previous proposal for creating The Cutting Room Floor template]] ({{tem|TCRF}}). On December 11, 2022, the Dragon Quest Wiki was {{plain link|https://x.com/NIWANetwork/status/1602080654149439488|expelled from the Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance}} due to controversies surround its new host, following inappropriate conduct on the part of that host. However, while "pre-release and unused content" articles link to TCRF, articles on ''Dragon Quest'' games and subjects that appear in the [[Super Mario (franchise)|''Super Mario'' franchise]] (i.e.: the [[Slime (Dragon Quest)|Slime]], [[Alefgard]], ''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]'') and companies responsible for working on ''Dragon Quest'' games (i.e.: [[Square Enix]]) already link to the Dragon Quest Wiki quite often, so they are considered to-go wikis. As such, I humbly ask if there's a possibility to formalize the linking with the Dragon Quest Wiki template like both {{tem|Wikipedia}} and {{tem|TCRF}}.
##Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
##Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
#Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
#At any time a vote may be rejected if at least '''three''' active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
#"<nowiki>#&nbsp;</nowiki>" should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
#Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "[[Wikipedia:Quorum|NO QUORUM]]." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
#All proposals are archived. The original proposer must '''''take action''''' accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
#There are two topics that cannot be decided on through a proposal: the first is sysop promotions and demotions, which are decided by [[MarioWiki:Bureaucrats|Bureaucrats]]. Secondly, no proposals calling for the creation of Banjo, Conker or Sonic series articles are allowed (several proposals supporting them have failed in recent history).


The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights).  If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.
Here's what the Dragon Quest Wiki template could look like.


__TOC__
Using <code><nowiki>{{Dragon Quest}}</nowiki></code> on the ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' article will result in this:


<center><span style="font-size:200%">CURRENTLY: '''{{LOCALTIME}}, {{LOCALDAY}} {{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALYEAR}} (EDT)'''</span></center>
{| class="nav-right noprint plainlinks" style="background:#d8d8e9;--darkbg:#001a33;border:1px solid #aae;--darkborder:#069;padding:2px"
| style="padding-right:10px" | [[File:Dragon Quest Wiki icon.png|x40px]]
| The [[dragonquest:Main Page|Dragon Quest Wiki]] has an article on '''[[dragonquest:Super Smash Bros. Ultimate|Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]'''.
|}


==New Features==
Using <code><nowiki>{{Dragon Quest|Slime}}</nowiki></code> on the [[Slime (Dragon Quest)|Slime (''Dragon Quest'')]] article will result in this:
=== Mario Calendar ===
Wikipedia's Main Page has a "On this day" feature which shows all past events that happened on that day. I had the idea of something ''similar''. A Mario calendar to go on the Main Page which shows past release dates of games released on that month. For example, it's November, so it shows most/all Mario games released on November (for example, ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' was released November 2007, so it will be listed in the Calendar). Other important Mario events will be listed such as [[Shigeru Miyamoto]]'s birthday. I think it'd be a cool thing to have on the Main Page. What do you think?


[[User:Paper Jorge/Test|This is the template that would go somewhere on the Main Page. Notice how it says "See more dates". Because we don't want to make the Main Page too big, people can click on "See more dates" to see the full calendar if they are interested in seeing it.]]
{| class="nav-right noprint plainlinks" style="background:#d8d8e9;--darkbg:#001a33;border:1px solid #aae;--darkborder:#069;padding:2px"
| style="padding-right:10px" | [[File:Dragon Quest Wiki icon.png|x40px]]
| The [[dragonquest:Main Page|Dragon Quest Wiki]] has an article on '''[[dragonquest:Slime|Slime]]'''.
|}


[[User:Paper Jorge/Test3|This is the full calendar.]]
Credit for the similar text to the one from [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66#Create The Cutting Room Floor link template|here]] goes to [[User:Bro Hammer|Bro Hammer]] for use on this proposal.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Paper Jorge}} <br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}}<br>
'''Deadline''': November 10th, 2008 17:00
'''Deadline''': June 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT


==== Add it to Main Page ====
====Support: A Template Draws Near!====
#{{User|Paper Jorge}} It's a cool idea and if a new Mario game was coming later that month, people know the exact date of when it's coming out right away. Plus, knowing the release dates of past Mario games released many years ago is cool right? (And you won't forget Shigeru Miyamoto's birthday either!)
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - I always thought this place needed a calendar, I was just too lazy to actually make one. Kudos.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all.
#{{User|Super-Yoshi}} Per all. And omg I was born on the same day as Shigeru :O
#{{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}} Per Paper Jorge.
#{{User|BeeBop!}} Great idea, Paper Jorge!
#{{User|Stumpers}} - Awesome!  The only issue will be finding a good release date for ''[[Donkey Kong (arcade game)|Donkey Kong]]'', right?
#{{User|Mateus 23}} - Per all.
#{{User|MC Hammer Bro.}}-Great idea and sorta a fun fact for each month.
#{{User|Iggykoopa}} hell yea per all.
#{{User|Tucayo}} - Per all. I've always liked that calendar.
#{{User|Storm Warrior}} This must be the greatest thing ever! Per all!
#{{User|Phailure}} Per all.
#{{User|Nintendo Wii and EA}} I agree with everyone.I have no idea when Nintendo Peoples' Birthdays are so I want to know! I think it'll also be fun.
#{{User|Dom}} - This proposal is "Hi-technicaaaaaaaaaal!" ([[Francis]]). Awesome idea, Paper Jorge!
#{{User|Grandy02}} - Per all, a great addition.
#{{User|Arend}} - Wee! Good idea! But try to make some sort system that change this things montly.
#{{User|Jaffffey}} - Sounds awesome. Would there be pictures?
#{{User|Master Crash}}- I honestly like this idea, finding out what happened on this day will be alot of fun.


==== Don't add it ====
====Oppose: The Template Started to Run Away.====
#{{User|Arend}} Personally, I don't really see a point as to why ''specifically'' the Dragon Quest Wiki would get their own "link box template" (for the lack of a better term), when other themed wikis don't, with the NIWA wikis in particular having to share {{tem|NIWA}} instead having their own "link box template" as well. One would think it's a better idea if we had a template similar to {{tem|NIWA}} instead, but for all the non-NIWA wikis instead; though even then, there isn't really anything special to those wikis, so it's not even necessary to put them in a "link box template" when a normal list of external links works too. True, the Dragon Quest Wiki ''is'' in this weird position of it being a former NIWA wiki, but I still don't think it's a good idea by making it seem ''more special'' than other NIWA wikis by giving it its own exclusive template while the ACTUAL wikis on NIWA have to share {{tem|NIWA}}, when factually speaking, the Dragon Quest Wiki is ''on a lower level than the NIWA wikis'', affiliate-wise. Also, people on the Super Mario Wiki Discord claim that there even is already a "link box template" for specifically this wiki, but I cannot verify that.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per arend
#{{User|1468z}} Per all. We could just link to the wiki in an External links section like we already do with non-NIWA wikis like Sonic Retro.
#{{User|Hewer}} Wikipedia and The Cutting Room Floor both have more direct overlap with this wiki's coverage due to not being tied to a specific franchise, so I think they make more sense to have their own templates. Meanwhile, the only times we'd have any coverage overlap with Dragon Quest Wiki would be when the franchises specifically cross over with each other, so there's less of a use for it. For those cases, we can just put the links in the "External links" section like normal, as we do with Sonic and Rayman crossovers.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all, Arend especially. If we had a box like these for all non-NIWA wikis, it would get extremely annoying, fast; Wikipedia and TCRF are exceptions considering their prevalence, and are by no means the norm for this.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per all.
#{{User|Salmancer}} Per all.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
#{{User|Altendo|Altendo Quest}} Per all.
#{{User|PanchamBro}} Even disregarding my uncomfortable and complex feelings with Dragon Quest Wiki at the moment, I find it very unnecessary to make a link box template just for a non-NIWA wiki that doesn't hold any special value like Wikipedia or TCRF does.
#{{User|Nelsonic|Nelsonic Quest III HD-2D Remake}} Per all.


==== Comments ====
====Dragon Quest Comments====
Just as a note Stumpers, if we can't find the release date for a certain game, in this case, Donkey Kong, then I guess, we don't ''have'' to randomly add it in the calendar. It can be left out, I guess. {{User|Paper Jorge}}<small>Even if it is the first Mario game in history.</small>
:I just noticed that we have exact Japanese and European dates, so I'm sure we could work around it!  Push comes to shove we could put it at the top without a date. {{User|Stumpers}}
It's a great idea, but it bugs me that the calendar only uses US dates at the moment. If other regions get included as well, I'll support. And if you think that would be too much, I'd suggest to use the original release dates regardless of region (very often not the US).--[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 16:37, 4 November 2008 (EST)
::Perhaps there could be an option such as 'Click here for ___'s Mario events of the month', or something along those lines? {{User|Stooben Rooben}}


:::Of course we'll have more than American releases. Notice how at the bottom of the calendar there's "All release dates are the American releases unless tsated otherwise". We can have ''Super Mario 64 releasedon July 23 (Japan)'' and stuff. No worries. Or like Stumpers said, we can have a Japan, European, Australian ect. calendars. :P {{User|Paper Jorge}}
===Create "catch-all" Mario Sports (series) article===
::::I'm glad you mentioned Australia there, PJ. Oh, I have a question: Who will be in charge of updating the calendar - I would guess it's restricted to Sysops only to prevent trolls and spammers taking advantage of the Main Page? Am I correct? {{User|Dom}}
{{early notice|June 1, 2025}}
This article would include the games listed in the [[Mario & Sonic (series)]], [[Mario Golf (series)]], [[Mario Tennis (series)]], [[Mario Strikers (series)]], and [[Super Mario Stadium (series)]] articles. It would also include ''[[Mario Hoops 3-on-3]]'', and ''[[Mario Sports Mix]]''. Although I would not prefer it, the [[Mario Kart (series)]], Pinball games ([[Pinball]], [[VS. Pinball]], [[Mario Pinball Land]]) and [[Famicom Grand Prix (series)]] could be included as well. The reason for doing this would be to create a way for users to see all the sports games without having to go through the hassle of having to know every sports game featuring Mario in their head before searching and could instead find them all in one "catch-all" article. A proposal passed for creating a "catch-all" Poltergust article and that has less merit than this in my opinion, so I don't think it'd be too wild to do this. To clarify, the series and game articles mentioned would still be separate but there would be a new article to access all of the sports series and game articles in one place.


:::::Yes, sysops (mostly me, lol), or we could protect the page so users who've been on the wiki for more than ## days can edit. {{User|Paper Jorge}}
'''Proposer''': {{User|Pizza Master}}<br>'''Deadline''': June 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT
:::::: Days? Not months? {{User|Storm Warrior}}


==Removals==
====Support (not including Mario Kart, Famicom GP, and Pinball games)====
''None at the moment.
#{{User|Pizza Master}} preferred.
 
====Support (including Kart, FGP, and Pinball)====
==Splits & Merges==
#{{User|Pizza Master}} secondary.
===Kirby's forms===
====Support (including Kart and FGP but not Pinball)====
Compared to other SSB contestant pages, Kirby's article is too long because of his Forms list. I feel we should give his forms a separate page to equal it out. But i can't do it without your permission. So what do you guys think? New page or same page?
#{{User|Pizza Master}} per Arend's comment.
 
====Oppose====
'''Proposer''': {{User|Storm Warrior}}<br>
#{{User|Technetium}} Why do we need this? It's not like we have one for the RPG games either. That and the whole "do we include ''Mario Kart''" debate.
'''Deadline''': November 8th, 2008, 20:00
#{{User|Salmancer}} For a list, [[List of games by genre]] has you covered. For commenting on patterns in Mario adaptations of sports, we have [[Genre]]. I'm not seeing this one.
 
#{{User|Xiahou Ba, The Nasty Warrior}} Per all.
====Create New page====
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all, especially Salmancer; we already have genre-centric lists, so this isn't really necessary.
#{{User|Storm Warrior}} - Per myself.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per all. I do not believe Nintendo considers these to fall under a singular ''Mario Sports'' banner, as the only two games to use that name are ''[[Mario Sports Mix]]'' and ''[[Mario Sports Superstars]]'', which feature their own versions of sports that got their own game series.
#{{User|Baba O'Riley}} - There are too many different Kirbys. If more important information is to be added, the article would be way to big.
#{{User|Hewer}} I think it's inaccurate to act like all these games are part of one "Mario Sports series". Sports games are just a common genre that many Mario games share. For what it's worth, Nintendo lists Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, and Mario Strikers all as individual series on [https://www.nintendo.com/jp/character/mario/en/history/index.html Mario Portal], not as one collective Mario Sports series. I honestly think you could make a better case to do this for the RPGs than the sports games, since some of those at least have more direct connections to one another (not that I'd support that either).
#{{User|Nintendo Wii and EA}} - I have one simple silution.Create a page called ''Kirby/Forms''.Or put a link to the Kirby wikia.I should be put in the middle of all this.
#[[User:Altendo|''Altendo & Sonic'']] ([[User talk:Altendo|series]]) Per ''Technetium Golf'' (series), ''Salmancer Tennis'' (series), ''Xiahou Ba Strikers'' (series), ''Super Camwoodstock Stadium'' (series), ''Nelsonic Hoops 3-on-3'', and ''Hewer Sports Mix''.
 
#{{User|Rykitu|''MarioWiki users at the Olympic Games Paris 2024''}} Per all.
====Leave it as it is====
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy|Kaptain Skurvy Sports Mix}} Per all.
#{{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}} Its part of Kirby's page. His forms are apart of him so it belong in his page. Plus we have a proposal to merge their SSB move to their page. (It like undoing the last proposal!!) Moving it is a big no no.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - While ''Mario'' forms like [[Fire Mario]] are seperate from the main character articles, ''SSB'' info is secondary on this Wiki, so ''Kirby'' forms do not merit the same treatment.
#{{User|Super-Yoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|Iggykoopa}} WTF! per all
#{{User|Dom}} - 1. They would all be stubs. 2. That's unnecessary, especially when factoring in this Wiki's priority on Mario-stuff. 3. Kirby's page isn't too long. If you want to see long, go to [[Mario]] or [[SSBB]] - they're long.
#{{User|Stumpers}} - We've really been trying to cut down our emphasis on ''Super Smash Bros.'' content (by merging, etc. rather than removing content), so this would be a step backwards.  I'm sure you didn't know that, so I'm sorry that so many people are against the proposal right now!!  However, this kind of proposal would do well on the two Kirby Wikis I know of!


====Comments====
====Comments====
{{User|Storm Warrior}} Dom, I'm not saying I'm giving every form a separate page, but rather 1 page. And I'm not saying It's long, it's just longer than SSB contestant pages like Falco and Ganondorf.
I can understand go-karting and formula 1 racing be included, but how in the heck is ''pinball'' of all things a sport?! That's like calling arcade games such as skee-ball a sport! {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:12, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
::Well, Point 2 of mine is what really matters, and Stumpers also mentioned that. So, I doubt this proposal will be successful. {{User|Dom}}
:When looking at the sports games Mario has appeared in on Wikipedia, it mentioned [[Pinball]] and [[Mario Pinball Land]] as sports games. I don't agree with that but some people consider Poker to be a sport so yea. -- [[User:Pizza Master|Pizza Master]] ([[User talk:Pizza Master|talk]])
::A pinball video game is a simulation of the real world activity of pinball. It could count. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 16:27, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
:::{{@|Technetium}} {{@|Salmancer}} We don't need a catch-all for the Poltergust either but people wanted it anyway. Why should this be different? Regarding the RPG games, there are only 3 series of RPGs but many series of sports games. In option one, there are 5 series + 2 basketball games, in option two there are 7 + basketball, and in option three there are 8 + basketball. Regarding the List of games by genre, most users looking to find information on particular series aren't going to instinctually look that up and more than likely will type in something more common. Also, what one thinks on whether the real-life Pinball should be considered a sport will guide whether one thinks Pinball should be included in this catch-all article.-- [[User:Pizza Master|Pizza Master]] ([[User talk:Pizza Master|talk]])
::::"Mario Sports" can redirect to [[List of games by genre#Sports]], thus solving the community held nickname problem. Genre (the article) is already trying to count up all of the real world sports seen in Mario, and failing because the Olympic Games makes it hard to quantify. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 17:14, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
::::How exactly is Poltergust comparable whatsoever? We have an article covering various iterations of a recurring fictional object, so we should also have an article providing an overview of multiple loosely related series of sports games? I completely fail to see the analogy here. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 19:50, May 25, 2025 (EDT)


==Changes==
==Removals==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''


==Miscellaneous==
==Changes==
===Youtube Poop===
===Split every song from the "List of (show) songs" articles===
This is a very urgent proposal I've been waiting to make for a long time. It regards the "Youtube Poop" video remixes on Youtube, and the prominence of [[Hotel Mario]] and [[Mama Luigi]] in them. I have tried multiple times to insert information about YTP into these two articles, but it has been continually removed and I have been told to make a proposal on it.
{{Early notice|May 31, 2025}}
Those who have been removing the YTP information inserted by me and others claim that it is not suitable for this wiki because it is ''Unofficial'' and ''Fan-made''. However, we have a page for [[Sightings]], which certainly are not official, except for "Sightings" in other Nintendo games.
<small>(Yes, I am aware this might sound like a crazy idea, but hear me out.)</small>
"Mama Luigi" and "Hotel Mario" are two of the most ''Well-known'' and ''commonly used sources'' for Youtube Poop videos. They have ''Thousands'' of YTPs in their name, and are ''Synonymous'' with the phenomenon. In addition, the tone of the [[Hotel Mario]] and [[Mama Luigi]] articles, as well as the articles on all similar works, are written in a tone that ''Puts them on the same level as "Official" Mario titles'', in an entirely serious manor, discussing the subjects of ''Well Known YTP memes'' without even alluding to the phenomenon. I would like to have this seen into so that we can fix these two articles and add Youtube Poop Content. Thank you.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Moleman9000}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' November 9, 2008, 15:00
====Support====
====Oppose====
#{{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}} This is a site of offical site of the Mario series. We don't not state fad on article because it consided '''fanon'''. And fanon is false information made by the fans. Those videos are offical like you have stated if Nintendo have made those video they'll might be officla since the own all of the Mario Chatartes in the series. So what if the have a little Mario elements in those videos their still conside fanon since they are '''user made''' with make it 100% fanon.
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Firstly, YTP is nothing but ''pure fanon''. Nothing more, and nothing less. We do not allow fanon on this site, only official subjects. Your comment about the [[Sightings]] being fanon because they are not directly linked to Nintendo is false; '''the references are within official games, literature, music, television, and films, because they were created by official companies'''. All companies linked to Nintendo are official, all companies ''not'' linked to Nintendo are official. YouTube is '''not an official company'''; YouTube is a community that accepts all sorts of material: official and fan-made. YouTube is not a great source to get official information because of this. YouTube Poop is directly linked with YouTube. Why? Because the '''members''' of that '''unofficial community''' created it out of their '''imagination'''. Implementing unofficial work into articles that are official is barbaric in all senses. I believe the '''only''' chance YTP has at getting on this wiki, is to be implemented into the [[Online references]] page &ndash; and even that may not be possible.
#{{User|Stumpers}} I agree with both of the above voters.  However, I would like to specify and clarify something: the references pages are for professional content, either licensed or simply parodies.  Fan creations such as those on Newgrounds, YouTube, or those posted on fan-sites, are not professional.  Also, you said, "the tone of the Hotel Mario and Mama Luigi articles, as well as the articles on all similar works, are written in a tone that Puts them on the same level as "Official" Mario titles, in an entirely serious manor."  Big question I have with that is, why shouldn't we?  Would you want us to be humorous and unprofessional instead?  It seems that your logic is, since YouTube Poop uses the content and YTP is humorous, why aren't our articles humorous and unprofessional?  I recall when this issue came up on ''Hotel Mario'', you thought we should both have YTP information on the article, and that we also should tone down the seriousness of it.  I see now why you think that: you think ''Hotel Mario'' and other such sources are "unofficial" (yes, that's in your proposal).  You need to realize that all the content we cover is official Nintendo content with the exception of the reference pages.  The comics, TV shows, endutainment, and CDi titles were ALL licensed by Nintendo.  Official Nintendo permission was given to the publishers.  Since Nintendo gave its approval, just like it did with the games you consider official, we are going to continue to cover them with the same amount of respect and completeness, even if that means there is no place in them for YouTube Poop and other fan creations.
#{{User|Super-Yoshi}}...Per All.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all.
#{{User|Dark Lakitu 789}}Per All,If we make a list of all Youtube poop that has Mama Luigi or Hotel Mario ect.It's like having to make a list of everything on the internet that has unofficial Mario stuff.(Mario Flash cartoons,Hacks,ect.).
#{{User|RAP}} Per all, hmmm... *is going to delete that Rainbow Road song article*
#[[User: Booster|Booster]] - Per all. There's waaay too many unnofficial references to Mario out there. Anyone with a computer and an imagination can make one. Only references made by proper companies are worth noting, since professional people went out of their way to reference Mario in their work, be it a TV series like ''The Simpsons'' or a professional web-toon like ''Seth MacFarlane's Cavalcade of Cartoon Comedy''.
#{{User|Nerdy Guy}} Per all. I think this is just to plain stupid. Come on, man. I mean YouTube Poop?!?!? How come people get so desprite to make stupid articles about stuff that is just is for entertamint. It's not realy soposed to be taken as real!!! Can we add this to BJAODN?
#{{User|Storm Warrior}} If we added every fan made thing about Mario here, this wiki would be '''crowded'''.


====Comments====
Many of the ''Mario'' cartoons, like ''[[Super Mario World (television series)|Super Mario World]]'' and ''[[Donkey Kong Country (television series)|Donkey Kong Country]]'' incorporate songs into their episodes, and we cover all of those songs by lists. It's a pretty good way to store those songs...but...recently, I was gonna start adding lyrics from other languages to some ''Donkey Kong Country'' songs, and I was thinking that if we include every language for every song, the lists will start getting really, REALLY long (Yes, I am aware some dubs didn't dub songs or episodes). And it's not like these songs don't have anything to talk about to warrant their own article. The articles could include a table of which dubs either include the song, dub the song, but shorten it, include the song, undubbed, or just flat-out don't include the song. ''Donkey Kong Country'' also has some interesting facts that could also be noted on their pages, "[[Pirate's Scorn]]" and "[[I'm Gonna Be a Star]]" airing on [[Musitoon]], "[[Monkey Business]]"'s "transition" variant on [[Pure West]]'s website, and Alestorm's cover of "Pirate's Scorn." There's definitely enough information for ''Donkey Kong Country'' songs to be split, and I don't see why this can't be applied to all of the other ''Mario'' cartoons.
As I stated earlier: even this might be a stretch, but the only possible way I could see getting YTP on this wiki is to put it [[Online references|here]]. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}


EXACTLY. ALL of those things mentioned on that page are UNOFFICIAL and FAN-MADE. What makes YTP any different from them?
'''Proposer''': {{User|Kaptain Skurvy}}<br>'''Deadline''': June 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT
Also note: a search for "Hotel Mario Youtube Poop" on youtube returns '''OVER 7000 RESULTS''', and a search for "Mama Luigi Youtube Poop" returns '''OVER 10,000 RESULTS''', and those are just the videos that '''explicitly label themselves as such'''. There are many more Hotel Mario and SMW poops than that. I think that's pretty notable. {{User|Moleman9000}}


No matter what it is still fanon srsly. No there offical!!! ({{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
====Time to make like the banana and split! (Support)====
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Altendo|Al smoothie}} We already have [[peaches]], it's time to add bananas to the smoothie.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} one more step towards covering music better!
#{{User|Tails777}} Per EvieMaybe. I'd like to kinda rework how we cover music overall, but this is indeed a good step in the right direction.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} If having very long lists hinders coverage, it's better to split.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Our music coverage is already a tad strange, and a split like this is a step in the right direction. You could be somebody's hero with this.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Given I'm the guy who made the [[DDR: Mario Mix]] song articles, I'm very in favor of this kind of thing. <small>Heck, I've been trying to figure out how to justify making Donkey Konga song articles for a while now...</small>
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Yeah, sure, why not?
#{{User|Pseudo}} Better music coverage is always appreciated!


OKAY, then, by that logic, you're saying we should delete all of the references pages? {{User|Moleman9000}}
====This idea should slip on a banana peel! (Oppose)====
:'''Moleman''': Duh. That's why I gave you a link to the page. And, it doesn't matter how popular, nor does it matter how notable ''you'' believe they are &ndash; they aren't official. That's why I gave you the link to that page. The rest of the reference pages are official, because they come from official media. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}


No there offical not fanon. If there were then the SysOp would of eased it. {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
====Comments Seer, Comments Do (Comments)====
:Companies made them user mank them offical. If a user for youtube made a video (Like the Super Mario Z junk) it conside fanon on this wiki. {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}


The number of results from a given search does not make it any more official. Notability is one thing. Officialness is quite another. {{User|Phoenix Rider}}
===Allow creation of pages for officially named music tracks===
:Yup. (Not if it even past 1,000,000,000,000 it still fanon.) {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
{{early notice|June 1, 2025}}
::If we used notability, we wouldn't be including information on characters like [[Bowser's Sister]]. {{User|Stumpers}}
Our coverage of music on the wiki is... not great. Currently, pages for music tracks are limited to ones that are deemed recurring (appearing in 8 or more things), and if it falls out of that criteria, creating a page isn't allowed. We have a lot of inconsistent decisions on the wiki right now, but this might be one of the most confusing to an uninformed editor. Imagine you see "World 1 Map (Grass Land)" from ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' has a page, and that "World 2 Map (Desert Land)" doesn't. You might think that's a gap in the wiki's coverage, and decide to create that page... Except you can't, because we have very specific guidelines to determine why some tracks are notable enough to get a page and others aren't. In my opinion, this is one of the biggest coverage disparities on the wiki.
:::I think I should just change my vote to say "Per Stumpers". (Kudos.) I also agree with what Phoenix Rider said. If someone were to type "Mario Party 9" or "Mario Golf Wii" into Google, and received 10,000+ hits, would that make it "official"? No. It would make it notable that people want it, not official because people say it could happen or because they made a fan-based version of it. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
:They rumors. Which is also fanon like Paper Mario DS and Super Princess Daisy. {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}


A: You say that the references pages are only for "professional content", that is predjudice. On the internet referances page, you cover the Mario parody made by Seth McFarlene, and since that and YTP are both made under the same circumstances on the same site, what makes them any different?
And here's the thing, our current guidelines have very little to back them up as something to be set in stone. We're limited to recurring tracks because [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Create_pages_with_renditions_of_recognizable_music_themes|the original proposer didn't feel knowledgeable enough to make lots of music pages]], which is totally fair! (The wording of "I want to start something of this kind" implies to me that the expectation was always we'd eventually push farther though, yeah?) And we determine what's recurring by 8 appearances because it's an arbitrarily chosen number. To the hypothetical user who wants to know why "World 2 Map (Desert Land)" can't have a page for some reason, I don't think this holds up to much scrutiny. That proposal was made in 2018 as square one, but we're still there.
B: Hotel Mario is no more "official" or "canon" to the Mario series than the cd-i Zelda titles are to the Zelda series. It was only ''Liscensed'' by Nintendo, they nod no involvement in making it, and it is '''NOT''' considered canon to the franchise. Neither is the SMW show or any of the other liscensed material covered here.
C: What I mean when I talk about the articles on such things being written too seriously, look at the [[Mama Luigi]] article. THE IMAGE IS NOT THE PICTURE OF LUIGI SAYING "That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" and you go over the plot summary as if it was as canon as [[Super Mario World]] the game. The Mario cartoons were nothing more than a shameless and poorly made attempt to cash in on the success of Mario, and the ONLY reason Nintendo liscensed the characters to them is for MONEY. But, now in modern times, they have found a new audience and found a new place in culture, thanks to Youtube Poop, otherwise they would be forgotten. And yet you still refuse to even mention it, yet you have articles on CHARACTERS WHO ONLY APPEARED IN ONE EPISODE OF THE SERIES.  


How is that fair? {{User|Moleman9000}}
So here's my proposal, and it's a biggie: '''allow the creation of pages for music tracks that have been officially named'''. Basically, anything that's ever been in an in-game sound test, soundtrack release, Nintendo Music, sheet music book, or something like that. Internal names do not count for the scope of this proposal, it needs to be something that Nintendo intended to be public-facing.
:Characters who only appeared in one episode deserve to be mentioned, cause theyre official. St00by also said the closest YTP will get is on the online references page aswell. {{User|Super-Yoshi}}


No matter what you say about youtube poop is still '''fanon''', '''fanon''' and more '''fanon'''. Also per S-Y {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
'''This will not do away with the recurring themes guideline entirely.''' I don't really want to mess with it right now, and whether it's still beneficial if this proposal passes is something we can address separately at a later date. The recurring themes guideline will continue to handle the following cases:
:'''Moleman''': 2 of your 3 points are entirely invalid. Point A) That's why I gave you the link to [[online references]] and '''said''' that it might go there. Point B) Nintendo gave those companies the licensing and all the necessary permission to use ''Mario'' in ''[[Hotel Mario]]''. If Nintendo gave the permission, it is official. Whether there is no canon or not is entirely debatable as there is not proof of canon in almost all ''Mario'' games. Point C) Articles are to be written professionally no matter what. The image of [[Mama Luigi]] is there because it is the most notable scene in that episode; not because it's funny. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
*Classifying certain themes as recurring and giving them the appropriate category and navbox. I think this is still potentially useful to have.
*Arrangements of existing themes. If a specific arrangement meets the recurring criteria on its own (e.g. "[[Slider]]"), it will get its own page, otherwise it's merged with the original theme. This is how we handle these already, so no change here.
*Pages for unnamed themes. If a music track has never officially been named, it needs to meet the current recurring criteria to be considered notable enough to have a conjecturally named page.


He changing the subject every time no matter what (Unless Nintendo was invole in it) youtube poop is fanon. {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
As for a few questions I'm anticipating:
*'''Won't this result in a lot of short articles?''' Some of these articles will be shorter, yes. I personally don't think this is much of an issue, a shorter article is fine in my view as long as it's comprehensive about the subject. There are things worth talking about regarding these besides where they play in the game, such as [[Ground_BGM_(Super_Mario_Bros.)#Composition|their composition]].
*'''Won't this result in a ''lot'' of articles?''' Yes! If we're trying to cover the ''Mario'' franchise to the best of our ability, I don't see why this is a problem.
*'''Will this cause copyright problems?''' As far as I can tell, no. The Kingdom Hearts Wiki, which is also owned by Porplemontage, has full comprehensive coverage of that series' musical themes. Some of our other NIWA affiliates have similarly strong music coverage.


Moleman, put it at this if we put a list of all the Youtube poop that has to do with Mario and put it in the References page it will load too long and basically make people mad and it will be hard to edit the References page.{{User|Dark Lakitu 789}}
To be clear, this proposal is not ''specifically'' to create all of these articles (otherwise it'll probably sit unimplemented until the end of time), rather to relax our guidelines a bit to allow these articles to be created eventually. If someone makes a well-written article, it doesn't really make sense to delete it for falling outside of limits that are arbitrary and not communicated very well.


Plus that it could the page freeze on old computures. {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
'''Deadline''': June 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT


Thanks, Stooben. I thought your point above was good to, and I'll just say, per Stooben in that case.  I'd like to clarify something however: Moleman is NOT suggesting we list every YouTube Poop as I understand it. Rather, he wants us to acknowledge their existence.  Now, Moleman, you said that you feel that way because the shows, etc. were just cash-ins with no cultural impact, and that their popularity and worth are now increasing because of YTP. I'd like to suggest that you are likely somewhere between 10 and 16 if you feel that way, and/or you didn't have (cable) TV when you were growing up. Had neither of these conditions been true, you would know that to the enormous number of people who at the time were children saving Princess Peach for the first time in ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'', the television shows were big.  As time went on, they declined in popularity and impact, yet ''Super Mario World'' played a major role in the Mario series as a whole. Just because you didn't experience the television shows and the CDi titles when you were first becoming interested in the series doesn't decrease their worth. The shows are still selling very well on DVD considering their age, remember. This is actually a big problem in all Nintendo series today: many gamers who weren't gaming during the NES or SNES days (myself included for the NES) believe for some reason that a substantial amount of official material cannot be canon for some reason or another. However, since immersing myself in the old shows, comics, etc., I've discovered that there are only a few contradictions, usually on par with the contradictions made between video games. {{User|Stumpers}}
====Music to my ears (Support)====
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per proposal.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per.
#{{User|Technetium}} As long as the resulting articles are large enough to warrant their existence. Or maybe some of the shorter ones could be merged into larger articles, based on, for example, shared motifs?
#{{User|Tails777}} '''Strong support.''' The way we currently cover music has been on my mind a lot lately. This at least helps further justify a few music articles we currently have beyond their "recurring" nature (Waluigi Pinball has an article largely because the ''Brawl'' rendition appears in three games and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' is being treated as a separate thing from ''Mario Kart 8'', which really feels like cheating considering ''MK8D'' is a port.)
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} I may not have voted on the original proposal, but I did support [https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/63#Clarify_and_expand_coverage_of_recurring_musical_themes| ToxicOJ's proposal], and this is just as good as that. (There's still the whole "PAL on NTSC" vs "NTSC on NTSC" vs "PAL on PAL" vs "NTSC on PAL"/"PAL on Toploader" thing from that proposal that could probably have its own proposal, but that's a whole other topic)
#{{User|Hewer}} Something I like about Inkipedia is how thorough its music coverage is, it'd be great to see this wiki do similar. The "recurring themes" system we've had so far has been decent, but 8 is a completely arbitrary number of appearances, it's not really clear whether things like soundtrack releases count as separate appearances, and it also means music coverage for newer games is really imbalanced with that of older games (like, most of the Super Mario Bros. 3 soundtrack qualifies for articles, while Super Mario Odyssey only has [[Fossil Falls (theme)|Fossil Falls]], one of its main themes, and even that only just managed to scrape past the requirement after a whole console generation's worth of time). And honestly, I've always found it a little odd how tracks with lyrics just get a free pass to have articles no matter how many appearances they have. The solution of doing away with that minimum number of appearances is much more simple, consistent, and fun. The wiki would cover a character or item that only appears in one game, so why should music be different?
#{{User|Altendo|Altendo Music}} Per all, but particularly Technetium.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per proposal. Lots of big news on the music coverage front, huh?
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all. I'd really like this wiki to cover music more thoroughly.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} per
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Sounds good to me!
#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} [https://youtu.be/6k6IzQmTq1A?feature=shared Music S.T.A.R.T]
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} This is extremely overdue. Honestly, we've had thoughts about this ever since we discovered ''[[Super Mario Bros. Special (album)|Super Mario Bros. Special]]'' (the album, NOT the game), and discovered it's an album that, apparently, has an overarching narrative in its lyrics. Having those translated and the story summarized on the article would be one, pretty nice, thing. Having individual pages to give proper transcripts and individual summaries on a per-song basis would be VERY nice.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} I can see a fair amount of use for this. Explaining which tracks are associated with certain characters, lifting leitmotifs and references, smaller cases of tracks being rearranged between games (''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'' have a lot), and maybe someone more musically inclined than me could go into instruments used and BPM. Media lists also need more love and I'm hoping this encourages their creation.
#{{User|Sorbetti}} Per music.
#{{User|Polley001}} I do share some concern that pages might be created without a sufficient amount of content, but by and large I'm all for increasing our music coverage. The 8 appearance rule was rather arbitrary and I generally don't feel that amount of appearances  should universally determine how worthy a track is of receiving an article.


<blockquote>Look at the [[Mama Luigi]] article. THE IMAGE IS NOT THE PICTURE OF LUIGI SAYING "That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" and you go over the plot summary as if it was as canon as [[Super Mario World]] the game. The Mario cartoons were nothing more than a shameless and poorly made attempt to cash in on the success of Mario, and the ONLY reason Nintendo liscensed the characters to them is for MONEY.</blockquote>
====I don't like the sound of that (Oppose)====
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} i hate to have to vote against a proposal touching on a subject i very much agree with, but i don't think this is the way to go. this works for some franchises, but ''Super Mario'' is absolutely not the kind of franchise this works for. just lifting the barrier and giving editors carte-blanche to create a bunch of scattered little music track pages just because they have an OST release with names seems like a very poor way of both organizing a wiki and analyzing a game's soundtrack. if this proposal allowed for the creation of pages about a game's ''entire soundtrack'', with sections for each track, i would vote for it in a heartbeat. as is? the rules after this passes will be needlessly open ended and result in a lot of work that will then have to be undone when we try to organize things further. it's just poorly thought-out.
#{{User|Salmancer}} I'm going against my principles of favoring more articles here, but I'm with Evie on this. If song article creation becomes open-season, I have a hunch people are going to rush out to fill the quota and we're going to end up with a lot of listicles that technically aren't stubs but also aren't interesting to read. This hunch is based on how many of our current theme articles lack "Composition" sections for their base forms, and how many of the articles have sections for arrangements without having a single sentence in any section for what that section's arrangement actually changed about the song. Mind you, the existing articles are for songs that have eight or more appearances and are therefore more likely to have primary source materials to utilize. If we can't manage to make solid articles off those, then I have low hopes for the flood of articles that will come from this proposal passing doing much better.


'''LOOK AT THE [[Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time]] ARTICLE. THE TRIVIA IS NOT SAYING''':"Due to the fact that the Shroob invasion is not remembered by any characters, even Toadsworth, the invasion may not have actually been intended to happen in the past. Since E. Gadd's memory was actually rearranged by the events taking place in the past, the Shroobs may have actually been attacking the present, but been sent to the past by the time holes made by E. Gadd's time machine."  '''AND YOU GO OVER THE END OF THE ARTICLE AS IT WAS AS CANON AS THE OTHER RPGS. '''PiT WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A SHAMELESS AND POORLY MADE ATTEMPT TO CASH IN ON THE SUCCESS OF MARIO AND THE only REASONS Nintendo LISCENCED THE CHARACTERS TO ALPHA DREAM IS FOR MONEY brrrrrraggHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!'''
====Comments (I ran out of jokes)====
You say anything that's in an in-game sound test, so this would mean articles for every track in Mario & Luigi: Dream Team through Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey, Paper Mario: Color Splash through The Thousand-Year Door remake, and even the games in Super Mario 3D All Stars. That would definitely get very excessive especially with a lot of the tracks in those games not playing very often. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 14:11, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
:Yes, that's the case. I don't see it as "excessive", personally, I already acknowledged that this would open us up to a lot of articles but I don't see that as being detrimental to the wiki at all. Music is an important part of the franchise and I think we ought to have better ways to cover it than we currently do - so many tracks have their history scattered across various pages because they haven't hit that magic eight or just aren't covered well at all. "The Grand Finale" is an iconic and beloved track, for example, but if I search that name I'm just redirected to the BJJ sound test where it says that it "Plays during the battle against Dark Bowser and Dark Star Core." and nothing else. Where can I read about differences in composition for the remake, or that it was in Smash, or what it's called in other languages? If I wanted to write an article about that, it would be deleted on the spot right now. Maybe it could be a section on Dark Bowser's article, but I'm not fond of having music coverage tucked away in odd places like that and not every track lends itself to that. Having articles for one-off tracks is a price I'm more than willing to pay for better coverage in this area (and, honestly, I still think those articles would be beneficial). I'm open to alternatives though, really I'm just looking for any improvement at all right now and I think ripping off the arbitrary limits bandage is the best way to do that. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 14:38, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
::Very well then, but what about the "thinking" versions of battle themes from The Origami King and The Thousand-Year Door? Would those have seperate articles as well or be covered in the base theme's article? There's several other tracks in these games that progressively gain more instruments as the game goes on but with each version listed seperately in the music player such as Origami King's Toad Town theme. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 20:45, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
:::The thinking versions and other variants would be considered arrangements and be merged with the base tracks (unless they somehow appeared enough times on their own, which I doubt will ever happen). --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:07, May 26, 2025 (EDT)


I HATE THAT GODAMN GAME, article is too serious. '''LET'S INCLUDE ALL THE INTERNET PARODIES, OUT OF PLACE SNARKY REMARK AND EVERY CRAP WE CAN FIND. '''
I don't oppose this, personally. I was the one who suggested the "eight minimum" rule in the first place to be cautious, but ultimately, it functioned more as a way to edge in coverage of a subject that was lacking such at the time. Now we ''do'' cover this sort of subject, and perhaps that rule is no longer needed. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:14, May 25, 2025 (EDT)


I ''really'' recommend reading [[MarioWiki:Canonicity|this]] before you makes anymore assumption about that "canon" thing. --[[User:Blitzwing|Blitzwing]] 06:58, 3 November 2008 (EST)
Okay, a question I have: how do we decide on a name to use for tracks that have multiple? Currently, it seems like names attached to the original appearance of a theme are higher priority than newer appearances (like "[[The Toad Brigade]]" instead of "It's Captain Toad!", and [[Slot Game BGM / Memory Game BGM|this track]] was never renamed to "Quizzy-Question Wonder" in the several months between that name and the current name appearing). This is unlike how our naming policy for other subjects prefers newer names, though I guess you could make the argument that a live service like Nintendo Music is treated differently for the purpose of figuring out the most recent name. Perhaps something should be added to [[MarioWiki:Naming]] about this. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 08:38, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
:Moleman, please remain civil and try to refrain from cursing. It's a proposal: it's nothing to get so upset about. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
:That's... a good question. It's out of the scope of this proposal, but seems like something we should have a greater discussion about down the road. (For the slots theme, you can at least make the argument that the SMB3 tracks on Nintendo Music weren't added until after SMBW? No such luck for the Toad Brigade theme though.) For my two cents, I think I would prefer to stick with the title that applies to the theme's original context, but like you say that's not consistent with current naming elsewhere... --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:07, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
:The draft proposal [[MarioWiki talk:Proposals#Proposal for defining musical theme name formatting policies|Proposal for defining musical theme name formatting policies]] would define naming policies. To revise the proposed policy further, musical themes would take names from any form of release of their source work's soundtrack. The source work can be defined as the first ''Super Mario''-related media to feature the theme. If the musical theme is attributed to another work within the first-released work, the attributed work is the source work instead. The soundtrack can be released with a name within the source work's [[Category:Sound tests|sound test]], an official soundtrack, a work containing an official soundtrack (such as ''[[Super Mario 3D All-Stars]]''), or [[Nintendo Music]]. If a name is not found from those sources, then a name from a later work can be used. Under this criteria, localization changes such as correcting "Koopa's Road" to "[[Bowser's Road]]" would be possible without the issue of renaming "[[Bonus Game BGM]]" to "Break Time! Tunes 1". [[User:B700465189a9|B700465189a9]] ([[User talk:B700465189a9|talk]]) 12:52, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
::I agree that music tracks should gear towards their original context. While I know this doesn't have its own article, as it's a variation of the Invincibility theme, it would be a bit off putting and misleading if "Metallic Mario" was named "Zappy-Zone Wonder", a name that is indeed a rendition of Metal Mario's theme, but not a name that has anything to do with Metal Mario as a whole. I believe this should be a case where the original name is maintained, as remixed/arranged themes can play for situations that are completely different than their original intention and that could get confusing when someone wants a certain theme, but has to look up a name that has nothing to do with what or where it played for. {{User:Tails777/sig}}16:22, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
:::That makes enough sense for different versions of tracks, but the two examples I picked out in my comment ("It's Captain Toad!" and "Quizzy-Question Wonder") are just re-uses of the original track under a different name, so it's a bit trickier. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 21:24, May 26, 2025 (EDT)


Yeah, Blitwing is right.  Please read [[MarioWiki:Canonicity]]. If we only treated games you consider worthwhile, that would be very complicated: soon every user would have a different list of games we should be covering with seriousness. Can you imagine how unfair such a system would be? {{User|Stumpers}}
Would these pages have images? I think it would make sense to be our own [[Nintendo Music]] and have a screenshot of a level or scene where the song plays, just for some visual association. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 18:46, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
:The specifics of these pages aren't covered in this proposal. Our current music articles are pretty barren visually, but I would like to see some improvement on that. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:42, May 28, 2025 (EDT)


I am not asking to actually change the existing content of the articles in such a manner. What I'm trying to say is, like, in the case of [[Hotel Mario]], that game '''IS''' widely considered poor, non canon, and a discrace to the mario series like the CD-i Zelda Titles. THE WAY THAT THE GAME IS TREATED WHEN TALKED ABOUT IN THAT ARTICLE '''ONLY''' Seems out of place when it is the only content of the article. If I had my way with the article, I would keep everything that is already there intact and add a "reception" section that adresses the poor reception to the game and its cutscenes and diologue, and of course Youtube Poop. Same with the [[Mama Luigi]] article. And as for the page of internet references, I KNOW THAT I CAN'T SIMPLY ADD A SECTION FOR YOUTUBE POOP TO IT AND LEAVE IT LIKE THAT, because it lists so few things as it is, and leaves out many, many OTHER, non YTP Fanworks.
@Camwoodstock: I'm pretty sure the tracks from that album could technically already get pages even without this proposal, since songs with lyrics seem to bypass the "recurring" criteria. [[18 x 13]], for instance, has an article despite making only one appearance. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 21:14, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
:I think "is an obtainable item" is an outright bypass, as per [[Work Those Muscles!]] and friends being Records in Warioware Gold. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 21:25, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
::Right, bad example. [[Break Free (Lead the Way)]], then. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 21:33, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
:::...See, we assumed there could maybe be a precedent just because of [[Ignorance is Bliss]], but we guess that works. It'd be nice to have it set-in-stone that you can give individual songs in an album articles outside of stuff like that, though. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 01:12, May 27, 2025 (EDT)


The way I would see fit to adress this is to CREATE A STANDARD FOR FAN FICTION based on prolificness and popularity for inclusion on the references page, and would need the help of many users to do so. Seeing as how hard this would be, I would prefer that we ADRESS FANON IN ARTICLES IN TRIVIA AND/OR RECEPTION SECTIONS, '''SEPERATE FROM THE MAIN CONTENT''', which I would do with [[Mama Luigi]] and [[Hotel Mario]]. I would not want to list EVERY internet parody, only the most popular ones that have a fanbase.{{User|Moleman9000}}
I went through all 111 pages on [[Template:Themes]] to find articles which fail to meet both of my criteria: having no textual data about how the original sounds and no textual data about what any one of the arrangements do to change the original. For the purposes of this, noting the song is shorter did not count as noting a change to the arrangement, but noting the variable mix properties used for every song in a specific game did count. There are six outright failures: [[Gusty Garden Galaxy (theme)]], [[Luma (theme)]] ("additional instrumentation" did not pass), [[Waltz of the Boos]], [[Castle Theme (Super Mario 3D Land)]], [[Fossil Falls (theme)]], and [[Hello, Happy Kingdom]]. In hindsight, allowing shared variable mix properties is way too generous, but that means there should be zero articles that qualify and not six. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 06:01, May 28, 2025 (EDT)
:Isn't the solution to articles being bad to improve them rather than to prevent their creation? While those articles certainly could be better than they are now, it's not like they're completely worthless in their current state, they still inform you of all the times that the theme has appeared. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:02, May 28, 2025 (EDT)
::My take on this is that perfect is the enemy of good. I'll concede that a lot of our music articles are not in the best shape they can be. But I also think some coverage is better than no coverage - Gusty Garden Galaxy may be nowhere near featured article worthy, but it's already doing a lot to consolidate information on an iconic track that would be scattered around who knows how many articles otherwise, and I think that's useful to have and something our readers would be interested in even if the article isn't covering everything it should be yet. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:42, May 28, 2025 (EDT)


ONLY GAMES THAT ARE PUBLISHED BY NINTENDO ARE CANON. Games liscensed to other companies and other-media spinoffs are OFFICIAL, but not CANON. The reason I am aggravated about this is because you cover '''ALL''' of these things on the same level of '''maticulous detail''' and disregard for notability and importance that you do with the canon games, yet YOU REFUSE TO EVEN MENTION YOUTUBE POOP OR ANY OTHER FAN-MADE WORK, even if it's seperate from the "official information". {{User|Moleman9000}}
Another question. What about songs that don't originate in the franchise? Will this proposal allow All Star from [[Donkey Konga 2]] to get a page? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:37, May 28, 2025 (EDT)
:To be honest. I was lying in wait for some of the currently running proposals to pass so that I could make a proposal on that subject. If we have precedent for named songs getting articles, precedent for lists of songs being split, and ''especially'' [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/62#Create_articles_for_Dance_Dance_Revolution:_Mario_Mix_songs|precedent for rhythm game songs being level equivalents and therefore requiring articles]], then everything lines up for Donkey Konga. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 11:22, May 28, 2025 (EDT)
:This doesn't include licensed tracks. That's pushing scope too much for my tastes and is kind of missing the point of why we're covering these tracks - if you wanted to know about All Star, there's plenty of other resources for those, but if we're not going to be covering ''Mario'' tracks, who will? Maybe if we somehow get to a point where every eligible track has a fully comprehensive page, we can consider having that discussion. For now, there's more important things to worry about, and I'd be a little concerned about our priorities if Take On Me had an article here while the majority of the Galaxy soundtrack was still missing pages. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:42, May 28, 2025 (EDT)


Okay, I may not have been clear enough in what I said before. I DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE THE EXISTING CONTENT OF ARTICLES. I want to ADD real-world content to the articles, to BALANCE the ridiculous level of detail in which official content is covered, About the REAL-WORLD reaction and legacy to the them. {{User|Moleman9000}}
==Miscellaneous==
 
''None at the moment.''
Rather than try and change our stance, it would be much better for you to start your own Wiki that covers the fan-made (fanon) additions to the Mario series.  It seems like you believe we hold the entire Mario series sacred.  However, you'll notice that we have a section called "Critical Reception" on a bunch of the game articles, and that is for you to post professional critic reviews about the titles, the movies, etc.  It's not good enough to just say that '''generally''' the fanbase believes something to be poor and non-canon.  That's just another way of saying "I believe something is poor and non-canon." Generalities are the bane of unbiased writing.  We're striving to make the most professional encyclopedia possible, and to do that our writing must be unbiased.  And please, try to understand: '''''there is no official canon in the Mario series, so no title can be non-canon'''''. {{User|Stumpers}}
 
@Moleman: Closing your ears and shouting "NAH NAH NAH NAH NOT CANON!!! NAH NAH NAH" doesn't put you in a good light. Neither do '''RANTING IN ALL-CAPS AND BOLDING IT SO IT'S EVEN MORE OF AN EYESORE'''.
 
Finally, I'd like to point we're merely an encyclopedia about the universe of a fat Italian plumber, and that [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra you should just relax]. --[[User:Blitzwing|Blitzwing]] 15:43, 3 November 2008 (EST)
 
Moleman is right in a sense. Homstar Runner isn't nessecarily offical, but it's on the Sightings page anyhow. But, come on '''Youtube Poop'''? Sheesh, gimme a break. Plus, even if the proposal passes(which it probaly won't), it would take forever to make such an article. I agree Mama Luigi and Hotel Mario are common sources for Utoob Poop, but that doesn't mean it deserves an article.{{User|Phailure}}
 
:Slightly changing the subject here: could it be possible to add the YTP (only the major ones: Mama Luigi, Hotel Mario, etc.) to the [[Online references]] page? I was thinking it might be able to, but I hardly ever edit those pages, so I wouldn't know. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
::I could see making a section on Internet memes... provided we'd have to dig deep down into the YouTube Poop community for the person who started it, his/her motivation, etc.  It would be a very hard section to write, as Internet memes as minor as these aren't documented very often (compare to Numa Numa, which made it into Newspapers, for goodness sake).  WHOA!  Here's a solution for Moleman: if you can find us an article (from a respectable fansite, professional website, or in print) that acknowledges YouTube Poop, bring it to us.  That would change the issue considerably. {{User|Stumpers}}
:::Thanks! Yeah, that would take a lot of work. I'll try to research as much on YTP as I can. Also, pertaining to Stumpers' last comment, if you were to find a page on a professional website, it could change the odds of your proposal considerably. ("Could" being the operative word there.) {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
 
The first ever youtube poop video was "I'D SAY HE'S HOT ON OUR TAIL" made by SuperYoshi(not our SuperYoshi) in 2004. It used clips from [[Recycled Koopa]].
 
As for finding an article, there is '''Youchew Poop.com''', the official forum site of YTP, WHICH HAS its own YTP-based wiki, called Chewiki.
 
I've also once read an online interview with the guy who voiced Mario in Hotel Mario, which makes reference to Youtube Poop, though not by name.
 
Lastly, in The Simpsons Game, Mario says during a cutscene, "I HOPE ITSA SPAGHETTI" in a manner VERY similar to Lugi's "I hope she made Lotsa spaghetti!" {{User|Moleman9000}}
 
And what does that have to do with YTP? {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
:Per Grapes, also lol at all of Blitz's comments XD {{User|Super-Yoshi}}
 
Can you link us to the interview? That seemed like the best place to start. {{User|Stumpers}}
:[http://pooparchive.com/wiki/index.php/Chewiki Here's the Chewiki]. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
 
The Mark Graue interview seems to not be on the internet anymore. But he said that he was "flattered that something published in 1993 has found new life on an entirely different platform." {{User|Moleman9000}}
 
ROFL! And this must be the most comments for any Proposal ever... {{User|Dom}}

Latest revision as of 18:23, May 28, 2025

Image used as a banner for the proposals page
Current time:
Thursday, May 29th, 18:25 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
  2. A given user may author/co-author a maximum of five total ongoing/unimplemented proposals. Any new proposals over this limit will be immediately canceled.
  3. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  4. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  5. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available. Keep in mind that we use approval voting, so all of your votes count equally regardless of preferred order.
  6. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  7. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  8. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  9. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  10. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  11. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  13. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  14. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  15. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  16. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  17. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  18. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  19. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  20. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  21. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  22. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal."

Poll proposal formatting

As an alternative to the basic proposal format, users may choose to create a poll proposal when one larger issue can be broken down into multiple subissues that can be resolved independently of each other. Poll proposals concerning multiple pages must have good justification for using the poll proposal format rather than individual talk page proposals or else will be canceled (for example, in the case of the princesses poll proposal, there are valid consistency concerns which make it worthwhile to consider these three articles simultaneously, but for routine article size splits, there is no need to abandon using standard TPPs for each).

In a poll proposal, each option is essentially its own mini-proposal with a deadline and suboption headings. A poll proposal can have a maximum of 20 options, and the rules above apply to each option as if it were its own proposal: users may vote on any number of options they wish, and individual options may close early or be extended separately from the rest. If an option fails to achieve quorum or reach a consensus after three extensions, then the status quo wins for that option by default. If all options fail, then nothing will be done.

To create a poll proposal, copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the option deadlines will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}

====[option title (e.g. Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 3)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

For the purposes of the ongoing proposals list, a poll proposal's deadline is the latest deadline of any ongoing option(s). A poll proposal is archived after all of its options have settled, and it is listed as one single proposal in the archive. It is considered to have "passed" if one or more options were approved by voters (resulting in a change from the status quo), and it is considered to have "failed" if all options were rejected by voters and no change in the status quo was made.

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{ongoing TPP}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, the proposal author(s), and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Deletions

Moves

Merges

Splits

Miscellaneous

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles and Super Mario Run.
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Split Mario & Luigi badges and remaining accessories, Camwoodstock (ended February 1, 2025)
Merge intro/outro sections, rename Gameplay section to "Overview" for Mario Party minigame articles, ToxBoxity64 (ended March 1, 2025)
Allow English Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia names to be mentioned on articles where they are not the title, Hewer (ended March 27, 2025)
Change previous and next entries cell in infoboxes to include actual entry names and change directory link, Bro Hammer (ended April 18, 2025)
Make a guideline for covering generic subjects that have a recurring and recognizable design in the Mario series, Koopa con Carne (ended May 4, 2025)
Rework "References" sections, EvieMaybe (ended May 5, 2025)
Create a separate list for physical games, Nelsonic (ended May 20, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)
Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles, Camwoodstock (ended January 31, 2025)
Split the Animal Crossing series (now Crossovers with Animal Crossing), Kaptain Skurvy (ended February 12, 2025)
Split the modes in the Battles page, Mario (ended February 15, 2025)
Split Super Mario Maker helmets from Buzzy Shell and Spiny Shell (red), PopitTart (ended March 12, 2025)
Split Super Luigi subjects into a dedicated list article, EvieMaybe (ended April 3, 2025)
Split Hammer (move) from Hammer, Blinker (ended April 10, 2025)
Deciding the fate of the last two episodes of Super Mario Maker 2 Challenges!, Rykitu (ended April 27, 2025)
Restore general coverage for Pyramid, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended May 9, 2025)
Split the Story Mode chapters from Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020, Kaptain Skurvy (ended May 13, 2025)
Clean up Prohibited Command, PrincessPeachFan (ended May 13, 2025)
Move SMB3 info from Floor (block) to Floor, and move Floor (block) to Mario Bros. Block, PopitTart (ended May 21, 2025)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Create the Dragon Quest Wiki template

Based on the vote so far, this proposal may be eligible to close one week early. Please use {{proposal check|early=yes}} on May 31, 2025 at 23:59 GMT and close the proposal if applicable.

This proposal is based on the previous proposal for creating The Cutting Room Floor template ({{TCRF}}). On December 11, 2022, the Dragon Quest Wiki was expelled from the Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance due to controversies surround its new host, following inappropriate conduct on the part of that host. However, while "pre-release and unused content" articles link to TCRF, articles on Dragon Quest games and subjects that appear in the Super Mario franchise (i.e.: the Slime, Alefgard, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate) and companies responsible for working on Dragon Quest games (i.e.: Square Enix) already link to the Dragon Quest Wiki quite often, so they are considered to-go wikis. As such, I humbly ask if there's a possibility to formalize the linking with the Dragon Quest Wiki template like both {{Wikipedia}} and {{TCRF}}.

Here's what the Dragon Quest Wiki template could look like.

Using {{Dragon Quest}} on the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate article will result in this:

Dragon Quest Wiki icon.png The Dragon Quest Wiki has an article on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

Using {{Dragon Quest|Slime}} on the Slime (Dragon Quest) article will result in this:

Dragon Quest Wiki icon.png The Dragon Quest Wiki has an article on Slime.

Credit for the similar text to the one from here goes to Bro Hammer for use on this proposal.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: June 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: A Template Draws Near!

  1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose: The Template Started to Run Away.

  1. Arend (talk) Personally, I don't really see a point as to why specifically the Dragon Quest Wiki would get their own "link box template" (for the lack of a better term), when other themed wikis don't, with the NIWA wikis in particular having to share {{NIWA}} instead having their own "link box template" as well. One would think it's a better idea if we had a template similar to {{NIWA}} instead, but for all the non-NIWA wikis instead; though even then, there isn't really anything special to those wikis, so it's not even necessary to put them in a "link box template" when a normal list of external links works too. True, the Dragon Quest Wiki is in this weird position of it being a former NIWA wiki, but I still don't think it's a good idea by making it seem more special than other NIWA wikis by giving it its own exclusive template while the ACTUAL wikis on NIWA have to share {{NIWA}}, when factually speaking, the Dragon Quest Wiki is on a lower level than the NIWA wikis, affiliate-wise. Also, people on the Super Mario Wiki Discord claim that there even is already a "link box template" for specifically this wiki, but I cannot verify that.
  2. YoYo (talk) Per arend
  3. 1468z (talk) Per all. We could just link to the wiki in an External links section like we already do with non-NIWA wikis like Sonic Retro.
  4. Hewer (talk) Wikipedia and The Cutting Room Floor both have more direct overlap with this wiki's coverage due to not being tied to a specific franchise, so I think they make more sense to have their own templates. Meanwhile, the only times we'd have any coverage overlap with Dragon Quest Wiki would be when the franchises specifically cross over with each other, so there's less of a use for it. For those cases, we can just put the links in the "External links" section like normal, as we do with Sonic and Rayman crossovers.
  5. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, Arend especially. If we had a box like these for all non-NIWA wikis, it would get extremely annoying, fast; Wikipedia and TCRF are exceptions considering their prevalence, and are by no means the norm for this.
  6. Technetium (talk) Per all.
  7. Salmancer (talk) Per all.
  8. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
  9. Altendo Quest (talk) Per all.
  10. PanchamBro (talk) Even disregarding my uncomfortable and complex feelings with Dragon Quest Wiki at the moment, I find it very unnecessary to make a link box template just for a non-NIWA wiki that doesn't hold any special value like Wikipedia or TCRF does.
  11. Nelsonic Quest III HD-2D Remake (talk) Per all.

Dragon Quest Comments

Create "catch-all" Mario Sports (series) article

Based on the vote so far, this proposal may be eligible to close one week early. Please use {{proposal check|early=yes}} on June 1, 2025 at 23:59 GMT and close the proposal if applicable.

This article would include the games listed in the Mario & Sonic (series), Mario Golf (series), Mario Tennis (series), Mario Strikers (series), and Super Mario Stadium (series) articles. It would also include Mario Hoops 3-on-3, and Mario Sports Mix. Although I would not prefer it, the Mario Kart (series), Pinball games (Pinball, VS. Pinball, Mario Pinball Land) and Famicom Grand Prix (series) could be included as well. The reason for doing this would be to create a way for users to see all the sports games without having to go through the hassle of having to know every sports game featuring Mario in their head before searching and could instead find them all in one "catch-all" article. A proposal passed for creating a "catch-all" Poltergust article and that has less merit than this in my opinion, so I don't think it'd be too wild to do this. To clarify, the series and game articles mentioned would still be separate but there would be a new article to access all of the sports series and game articles in one place.

Proposer: Pizza Master (talk)
Deadline: June 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support (not including Mario Kart, Famicom GP, and Pinball games)

  1. Pizza Master (talk) preferred.

Support (including Kart, FGP, and Pinball)

  1. Pizza Master (talk) secondary.

Support (including Kart and FGP but not Pinball)

  1. Pizza Master (talk) per Arend's comment.

Oppose

  1. Technetium (talk) Why do we need this? It's not like we have one for the RPG games either. That and the whole "do we include Mario Kart" debate.
  2. Salmancer (talk) For a list, List of games by genre has you covered. For commenting on patterns in Mario adaptations of sports, we have Genre. I'm not seeing this one.
  3. Xiahou Ba, The Nasty Warrior (talk) Per all.
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, especially Salmancer; we already have genre-centric lists, so this isn't really necessary.
  5. Nelsonic (talk) Per all. I do not believe Nintendo considers these to fall under a singular Mario Sports banner, as the only two games to use that name are Mario Sports Mix and Mario Sports Superstars, which feature their own versions of sports that got their own game series.
  6. Hewer (talk) I think it's inaccurate to act like all these games are part of one "Mario Sports series". Sports games are just a common genre that many Mario games share. For what it's worth, Nintendo lists Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, and Mario Strikers all as individual series on Mario Portal, not as one collective Mario Sports series. I honestly think you could make a better case to do this for the RPGs than the sports games, since some of those at least have more direct connections to one another (not that I'd support that either).
  7. Altendo & Sonic (series) Per Technetium Golf (series), Salmancer Tennis (series), Xiahou Ba Strikers (series), Super Camwoodstock Stadium (series), Nelsonic Hoops 3-on-3, and Hewer Sports Mix.
  8. MarioWiki users at the Olympic Games Paris 2024 (talk) Per all.
  9. Kaptain Skurvy Sports Mix (talk) Per all.

Comments

I can understand go-karting and formula 1 racing be included, but how in the heck is pinball of all things a sport?! That's like calling arcade games such as skee-ball a sport! ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 16:12, May 25, 2025 (EDT)

When looking at the sports games Mario has appeared in on Wikipedia, it mentioned Pinball and Mario Pinball Land as sports games. I don't agree with that but some people consider Poker to be a sport so yea. -- Pizza Master (talk)
A pinball video game is a simulation of the real world activity of pinball. It could count. Salmancer (talk) 16:27, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
@Technetium @Salmancer We don't need a catch-all for the Poltergust either but people wanted it anyway. Why should this be different? Regarding the RPG games, there are only 3 series of RPGs but many series of sports games. In option one, there are 5 series + 2 basketball games, in option two there are 7 + basketball, and in option three there are 8 + basketball. Regarding the List of games by genre, most users looking to find information on particular series aren't going to instinctually look that up and more than likely will type in something more common. Also, what one thinks on whether the real-life Pinball should be considered a sport will guide whether one thinks Pinball should be included in this catch-all article.-- Pizza Master (talk)
"Mario Sports" can redirect to List of games by genre#Sports, thus solving the community held nickname problem. Genre (the article) is already trying to count up all of the real world sports seen in Mario, and failing because the Olympic Games makes it hard to quantify. Salmancer (talk) 17:14, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
How exactly is Poltergust comparable whatsoever? We have an article covering various iterations of a recurring fictional object, so we should also have an article providing an overview of multiple loosely related series of sports games? I completely fail to see the analogy here. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:50, May 25, 2025 (EDT)

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Split every song from the "List of (show) songs" articles

Based on the vote so far, this proposal may be eligible to close one week early. Please use {{proposal check|early=yes}} on May 31, 2025 at 23:59 GMT and close the proposal if applicable.

(Yes, I am aware this might sound like a crazy idea, but hear me out.)

Many of the Mario cartoons, like Super Mario World and Donkey Kong Country incorporate songs into their episodes, and we cover all of those songs by lists. It's a pretty good way to store those songs...but...recently, I was gonna start adding lyrics from other languages to some Donkey Kong Country songs, and I was thinking that if we include every language for every song, the lists will start getting really, REALLY long (Yes, I am aware some dubs didn't dub songs or episodes). And it's not like these songs don't have anything to talk about to warrant their own article. The articles could include a table of which dubs either include the song, dub the song, but shorten it, include the song, undubbed, or just flat-out don't include the song. Donkey Kong Country also has some interesting facts that could also be noted on their pages, "Pirate's Scorn" and "I'm Gonna Be a Star" airing on Musitoon, "Monkey Business"'s "transition" variant on Pure West's website, and Alestorm's cover of "Pirate's Scorn." There's definitely enough information for Donkey Kong Country songs to be split, and I don't see why this can't be applied to all of the other Mario cartoons.

Proposer: Kaptain Skurvy (talk)
Deadline: June 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Time to make like the banana and split! (Support)

  1. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Al smoothie (talk) We already have peaches, it's time to add bananas to the smoothie.
  3. EvieMaybe (talk) one more step towards covering music better!
  4. Tails777 (talk) Per EvieMaybe. I'd like to kinda rework how we cover music overall, but this is indeed a good step in the right direction.
  5. Jdtendo (talk) If having very long lists hinders coverage, it's better to split.
  6. Camwoodstock (talk) Our music coverage is already a tad strange, and a split like this is a step in the right direction. You could be somebody's hero with this.
  7. Ahemtoday (talk) Given I'm the guy who made the DDR: Mario Mix song articles, I'm very in favor of this kind of thing. Heck, I've been trying to figure out how to justify making Donkey Konga song articles for a while now...
  8. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
  9. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.
  10. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) Yeah, sure, why not?
  11. Pseudo (talk) Better music coverage is always appreciated!

This idea should slip on a banana peel! (Oppose)

Comments Seer, Comments Do (Comments)

Allow creation of pages for officially named music tracks

Based on the vote so far, this proposal may be eligible to close one week early. Please use {{proposal check|early=yes}} on June 1, 2025 at 23:59 GMT and close the proposal if applicable.

Our coverage of music on the wiki is... not great. Currently, pages for music tracks are limited to ones that are deemed recurring (appearing in 8 or more things), and if it falls out of that criteria, creating a page isn't allowed. We have a lot of inconsistent decisions on the wiki right now, but this might be one of the most confusing to an uninformed editor. Imagine you see "World 1 Map (Grass Land)" from Super Mario Bros. 3 has a page, and that "World 2 Map (Desert Land)" doesn't. You might think that's a gap in the wiki's coverage, and decide to create that page... Except you can't, because we have very specific guidelines to determine why some tracks are notable enough to get a page and others aren't. In my opinion, this is one of the biggest coverage disparities on the wiki.

And here's the thing, our current guidelines have very little to back them up as something to be set in stone. We're limited to recurring tracks because the original proposer didn't feel knowledgeable enough to make lots of music pages, which is totally fair! (The wording of "I want to start something of this kind" implies to me that the expectation was always we'd eventually push farther though, yeah?) And we determine what's recurring by 8 appearances because it's an arbitrarily chosen number. To the hypothetical user who wants to know why "World 2 Map (Desert Land)" can't have a page for some reason, I don't think this holds up to much scrutiny. That proposal was made in 2018 as square one, but we're still there.

So here's my proposal, and it's a biggie: allow the creation of pages for music tracks that have been officially named. Basically, anything that's ever been in an in-game sound test, soundtrack release, Nintendo Music, sheet music book, or something like that. Internal names do not count for the scope of this proposal, it needs to be something that Nintendo intended to be public-facing.

This will not do away with the recurring themes guideline entirely. I don't really want to mess with it right now, and whether it's still beneficial if this proposal passes is something we can address separately at a later date. The recurring themes guideline will continue to handle the following cases:

  • Classifying certain themes as recurring and giving them the appropriate category and navbox. I think this is still potentially useful to have.
  • Arrangements of existing themes. If a specific arrangement meets the recurring criteria on its own (e.g. "Slider"), it will get its own page, otherwise it's merged with the original theme. This is how we handle these already, so no change here.
  • Pages for unnamed themes. If a music track has never officially been named, it needs to meet the current recurring criteria to be considered notable enough to have a conjecturally named page.

As for a few questions I'm anticipating:

  • Won't this result in a lot of short articles? Some of these articles will be shorter, yes. I personally don't think this is much of an issue, a shorter article is fine in my view as long as it's comprehensive about the subject. There are things worth talking about regarding these besides where they play in the game, such as their composition.
  • Won't this result in a lot of articles? Yes! If we're trying to cover the Mario franchise to the best of our ability, I don't see why this is a problem.
  • Will this cause copyright problems? As far as I can tell, no. The Kingdom Hearts Wiki, which is also owned by Porplemontage, has full comprehensive coverage of that series' musical themes. Some of our other NIWA affiliates have similarly strong music coverage.

To be clear, this proposal is not specifically to create all of these articles (otherwise it'll probably sit unimplemented until the end of time), rather to relax our guidelines a bit to allow these articles to be created eventually. If someone makes a well-written article, it doesn't really make sense to delete it for falling outside of limits that are arbitrary and not communicated very well.

Proposer: Waluigi Time (talk)
Deadline: June 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Music to my ears (Support)

  1. Waluigi Time (talk) Per proposal.
  2. DryBonesBandit (talk) Per.
  3. Technetium (talk) As long as the resulting articles are large enough to warrant their existence. Or maybe some of the shorter ones could be merged into larger articles, based on, for example, shared motifs?
  4. Tails777 (talk) Strong support. The way we currently cover music has been on my mind a lot lately. This at least helps further justify a few music articles we currently have beyond their "recurring" nature (Waluigi Pinball has an article largely because the Brawl rendition appears in three games and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is being treated as a separate thing from Mario Kart 8, which really feels like cheating considering MK8D is a port.)
  5. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) I may not have voted on the original proposal, but I did support ToxicOJ's proposal, and this is just as good as that. (There's still the whole "PAL on NTSC" vs "NTSC on NTSC" vs "PAL on PAL" vs "NTSC on PAL"/"PAL on Toploader" thing from that proposal that could probably have its own proposal, but that's a whole other topic)
  6. Hewer (talk) Something I like about Inkipedia is how thorough its music coverage is, it'd be great to see this wiki do similar. The "recurring themes" system we've had so far has been decent, but 8 is a completely arbitrary number of appearances, it's not really clear whether things like soundtrack releases count as separate appearances, and it also means music coverage for newer games is really imbalanced with that of older games (like, most of the Super Mario Bros. 3 soundtrack qualifies for articles, while Super Mario Odyssey only has Fossil Falls, one of its main themes, and even that only just managed to scrape past the requirement after a whole console generation's worth of time). And honestly, I've always found it a little odd how tracks with lyrics just get a free pass to have articles no matter how many appearances they have. The solution of doing away with that minimum number of appearances is much more simple, consistent, and fun. The wiki would cover a character or item that only appears in one game, so why should music be different?
  7. Altendo Music (talk) Per all, but particularly Technetium.
  8. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal. Lots of big news on the music coverage front, huh?
  9. Pseudo (talk) Per all. I'd really like this wiki to cover music more thoroughly.
  10. FanOfYoshi (talk) per
  11. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Sounds good to me!
  12. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Music S.T.A.R.T
  13. Camwoodstock (talk) This is extremely overdue. Honestly, we've had thoughts about this ever since we discovered Super Mario Bros. Special (the album, NOT the game), and discovered it's an album that, apparently, has an overarching narrative in its lyrics. Having those translated and the story summarized on the article would be one, pretty nice, thing. Having individual pages to give proper transcripts and individual summaries on a per-song basis would be VERY nice.
  14. Scrooge200 (talk) I can see a fair amount of use for this. Explaining which tracks are associated with certain characters, lifting leitmotifs and references, smaller cases of tracks being rearranged between games (Sticker Star and Color Splash have a lot), and maybe someone more musically inclined than me could go into instruments used and BPM. Media lists also need more love and I'm hoping this encourages their creation.
  15. Sorbetti (talk) Per music.
  16. Polley001 (talk) I do share some concern that pages might be created without a sufficient amount of content, but by and large I'm all for increasing our music coverage. The 8 appearance rule was rather arbitrary and I generally don't feel that amount of appearances should universally determine how worthy a track is of receiving an article.

I don't like the sound of that (Oppose)

  1. EvieMaybe (talk) i hate to have to vote against a proposal touching on a subject i very much agree with, but i don't think this is the way to go. this works for some franchises, but Super Mario is absolutely not the kind of franchise this works for. just lifting the barrier and giving editors carte-blanche to create a bunch of scattered little music track pages just because they have an OST release with names seems like a very poor way of both organizing a wiki and analyzing a game's soundtrack. if this proposal allowed for the creation of pages about a game's entire soundtrack, with sections for each track, i would vote for it in a heartbeat. as is? the rules after this passes will be needlessly open ended and result in a lot of work that will then have to be undone when we try to organize things further. it's just poorly thought-out.
  2. Salmancer (talk) I'm going against my principles of favoring more articles here, but I'm with Evie on this. If song article creation becomes open-season, I have a hunch people are going to rush out to fill the quota and we're going to end up with a lot of listicles that technically aren't stubs but also aren't interesting to read. This hunch is based on how many of our current theme articles lack "Composition" sections for their base forms, and how many of the articles have sections for arrangements without having a single sentence in any section for what that section's arrangement actually changed about the song. Mind you, the existing articles are for songs that have eight or more appearances and are therefore more likely to have primary source materials to utilize. If we can't manage to make solid articles off those, then I have low hopes for the flood of articles that will come from this proposal passing doing much better.

Comments (I ran out of jokes)

You say anything that's in an in-game sound test, so this would mean articles for every track in Mario & Luigi: Dream Team through Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey, Paper Mario: Color Splash through The Thousand-Year Door remake, and even the games in Super Mario 3D All Stars. That would definitely get very excessive especially with a lot of the tracks in those games not playing very often. Mario jumping Nightwicked Bowser Bowser emblem from Mario Kart 8 14:11, May 25, 2025 (EDT)

Yes, that's the case. I don't see it as "excessive", personally, I already acknowledged that this would open us up to a lot of articles but I don't see that as being detrimental to the wiki at all. Music is an important part of the franchise and I think we ought to have better ways to cover it than we currently do - so many tracks have their history scattered across various pages because they haven't hit that magic eight or just aren't covered well at all. "The Grand Finale" is an iconic and beloved track, for example, but if I search that name I'm just redirected to the BJJ sound test where it says that it "Plays during the battle against Dark Bowser and Dark Star Core." and nothing else. Where can I read about differences in composition for the remake, or that it was in Smash, or what it's called in other languages? If I wanted to write an article about that, it would be deleted on the spot right now. Maybe it could be a section on Dark Bowser's article, but I'm not fond of having music coverage tucked away in odd places like that and not every track lends itself to that. Having articles for one-off tracks is a price I'm more than willing to pay for better coverage in this area (and, honestly, I still think those articles would be beneficial). I'm open to alternatives though, really I'm just looking for any improvement at all right now and I think ripping off the arbitrary limits bandage is the best way to do that. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 14:38, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
Very well then, but what about the "thinking" versions of battle themes from The Origami King and The Thousand-Year Door? Would those have seperate articles as well or be covered in the base theme's article? There's several other tracks in these games that progressively gain more instruments as the game goes on but with each version listed seperately in the music player such as Origami King's Toad Town theme. Mario jumping Nightwicked Bowser Bowser emblem from Mario Kart 8 20:45, May 25, 2025 (EDT)
The thinking versions and other variants would be considered arrangements and be merged with the base tracks (unless they somehow appeared enough times on their own, which I doubt will ever happen). --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 12:07, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

I don't oppose this, personally. I was the one who suggested the "eight minimum" rule in the first place to be cautious, but ultimately, it functioned more as a way to edge in coverage of a subject that was lacking such at the time. Now we do cover this sort of subject, and perhaps that rule is no longer needed. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:14, May 25, 2025 (EDT)

Okay, a question I have: how do we decide on a name to use for tracks that have multiple? Currently, it seems like names attached to the original appearance of a theme are higher priority than newer appearances (like "The Toad Brigade" instead of "It's Captain Toad!", and this track was never renamed to "Quizzy-Question Wonder" in the several months between that name and the current name appearing). This is unlike how our naming policy for other subjects prefers newer names, though I guess you could make the argument that a live service like Nintendo Music is treated differently for the purpose of figuring out the most recent name. Perhaps something should be added to MarioWiki:Naming about this. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 08:38, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

That's... a good question. It's out of the scope of this proposal, but seems like something we should have a greater discussion about down the road. (For the slots theme, you can at least make the argument that the SMB3 tracks on Nintendo Music weren't added until after SMBW? No such luck for the Toad Brigade theme though.) For my two cents, I think I would prefer to stick with the title that applies to the theme's original context, but like you say that's not consistent with current naming elsewhere... --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 12:07, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
The draft proposal Proposal for defining musical theme name formatting policies would define naming policies. To revise the proposed policy further, musical themes would take names from any form of release of their source work's soundtrack. The source work can be defined as the first Super Mario-related media to feature the theme. If the musical theme is attributed to another work within the first-released work, the attributed work is the source work instead. The soundtrack can be released with a name within the source work's, an official soundtrack, a work containing an official soundtrack (such as Super Mario 3D All-Stars), or Nintendo Music. If a name is not found from those sources, then a name from a later work can be used. Under this criteria, localization changes such as correcting "Koopa's Road" to "Bowser's Road" would be possible without the issue of renaming "Bonus Game BGM" to "Break Time! Tunes 1". B700465189a9 (talk) 12:52, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
I agree that music tracks should gear towards their original context. While I know this doesn't have its own article, as it's a variation of the Invincibility theme, it would be a bit off putting and misleading if "Metallic Mario" was named "Zappy-Zone Wonder", a name that is indeed a rendition of Metal Mario's theme, but not a name that has anything to do with Metal Mario as a whole. I believe this should be a case where the original name is maintained, as remixed/arranged themes can play for situations that are completely different than their original intention and that could get confusing when someone wants a certain theme, but has to look up a name that has nothing to do with what or where it played for. Sprite of Yoshi's stock icon from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Tails777 Talk to me!Sprite of Daisy's stock icon from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate16:22, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
That makes enough sense for different versions of tracks, but the two examples I picked out in my comment ("It's Captain Toad!" and "Quizzy-Question Wonder") are just re-uses of the original track under a different name, so it's a bit trickier. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 21:24, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

Would these pages have images? I think it would make sense to be our own Nintendo Music and have a screenshot of a level or scene where the song plays, just for some visual association. Scrooge200 (talk) PMCS Mustard Cafe Sign.png 18:46, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

The specifics of these pages aren't covered in this proposal. Our current music articles are pretty barren visually, but I would like to see some improvement on that. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 11:42, May 28, 2025 (EDT)

@Camwoodstock: I'm pretty sure the tracks from that album could technically already get pages even without this proposal, since songs with lyrics seem to bypass the "recurring" criteria. 18 x 13, for instance, has an article despite making only one appearance. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 21:14, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

I think "is an obtainable item" is an outright bypass, as per Work Those Muscles! and friends being Records in Warioware Gold. Salmancer (talk) 21:25, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
Right, bad example. Break Free (Lead the Way), then. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 21:33, May 26, 2025 (EDT)
...See, we assumed there could maybe be a precedent just because of Ignorance is Bliss, but we guess that works. It'd be nice to have it set-in-stone that you can give individual songs in an album articles outside of stuff like that, though. Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) Camwoodstock-sigicon2.png 01:12, May 27, 2025 (EDT)

I went through all 111 pages on Template:Themes to find articles which fail to meet both of my criteria: having no textual data about how the original sounds and no textual data about what any one of the arrangements do to change the original. For the purposes of this, noting the song is shorter did not count as noting a change to the arrangement, but noting the variable mix properties used for every song in a specific game did count. There are six outright failures: Gusty Garden Galaxy (theme), Luma (theme) ("additional instrumentation" did not pass), Waltz of the Boos, Castle Theme (Super Mario 3D Land), Fossil Falls (theme), and Hello, Happy Kingdom. In hindsight, allowing shared variable mix properties is way too generous, but that means there should be zero articles that qualify and not six. Salmancer (talk) 06:01, May 28, 2025 (EDT)

Isn't the solution to articles being bad to improve them rather than to prevent their creation? While those articles certainly could be better than they are now, it's not like they're completely worthless in their current state, they still inform you of all the times that the theme has appeared. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 07:02, May 28, 2025 (EDT)
My take on this is that perfect is the enemy of good. I'll concede that a lot of our music articles are not in the best shape they can be. But I also think some coverage is better than no coverage - Gusty Garden Galaxy may be nowhere near featured article worthy, but it's already doing a lot to consolidate information on an iconic track that would be scattered around who knows how many articles otherwise, and I think that's useful to have and something our readers would be interested in even if the article isn't covering everything it should be yet. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 11:42, May 28, 2025 (EDT)

Another question. What about songs that don't originate in the franchise? Will this proposal allow All Star from Donkey Konga 2 to get a page? Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 07:37, May 28, 2025 (EDT)

To be honest. I was lying in wait for some of the currently running proposals to pass so that I could make a proposal on that subject. If we have precedent for named songs getting articles, precedent for lists of songs being split, and especially precedent for rhythm game songs being level equivalents and therefore requiring articles, then everything lines up for Donkey Konga. Ahemtoday (talk) 11:22, May 28, 2025 (EDT)
This doesn't include licensed tracks. That's pushing scope too much for my tastes and is kind of missing the point of why we're covering these tracks - if you wanted to know about All Star, there's plenty of other resources for those, but if we're not going to be covering Mario tracks, who will? Maybe if we somehow get to a point where every eligible track has a fully comprehensive page, we can consider having that discussion. For now, there's more important things to worry about, and I'd be a little concerned about our priorities if Take On Me had an article here while the majority of the Galaxy soundtrack was still missing pages. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 11:42, May 28, 2025 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

Retrieved from "https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Proposals&oldid=4912400"